<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Another option which I think could well be explored, and might even be more likely now too, is whether we (as a community at large not just as mofo/moco/whomever staff/org) want to invest a little time to make persona play nice w/ Facebook logins, twitter, hotmail, outlook, etc… Make it work with common SSO software used in edu institutes. These are all options and might not be too much of a time investment, from anyone working on it. (though I may need to be corrected here, my persona arch’ fu is not so strong).<div><br></div><div>This would benefit not only us, but anyone else wanting to use persona (which many still do).<br><div><br><div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><table style="font-size: 14px !important; line-height: 1.2 !important; font-family: Fira, 'Open Sans', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif !important; "><tbody><tr><td style="border-right-width: 2px; border-right-style: solid; border-right-color: grey; padding: 1em 1em 1em 0px; text-align: center; "><a href="https://webmaker.org/"><img src="https://webmaker.org/img/logo.png" alt="Mozilla Webmaker" height="59" width="200"></a><br><a href="https://webmaker.org/">www.webmaker.org</a></td><td style="padding: 1em 0px 1em 1em; "><strong style="font-size: 1.2em; ">William Duyck</strong><br>Webmaker Mentor<br>Mozilla Foundation<br><br>Email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:wduyck@mozillafoundation.org">wduyck@mozillafoundation.org</a><br>Twitter:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://twitter.com/fuzzyfox0">@FuzzyFox0</a></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div>
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<br><div><div>On 13 Mar 2014, at 13:06, Jessica Klein <<a href="mailto:jess@mozillafoundation.org">jess@mozillafoundation.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Great points here all around. I would feel more comfortable about having concrete data around this. From my most recent user tests of BadgeKit, on average it took 7 minutes to get an invested user (someone who signed up for the user test and really wanted to learn about BadgeKit) to login, primarily because they had to sign up, give credentials, check their emails for verification and input the set up. This was additionally awkward because many of the tools that we offer on the foundation side are accessed in public settings (libraries, public schools etc) - where time is of the essence and accessing multiple websites at one time takes a ton of bandwidth. That said , users who had a google or yahoo account were able to log in much faster than those who were using school email addresses (for example).<div><br></div><div>Another thing that I am considering - is this an obstacle to our overall product adoption? If our goal is to get more people using our tools, wouldn't we want a super simple login?</div><div><br></div><div>As David said, on Badges we are experimenting with several different kinds of identification : sms for example, so we will have the opportunity to test this theory out in the wild within the coming months - year. </div><div><br></div><div>All of this said, in my heart, Persona aligns with our values. I like the idea of having a trusted authentication system that has the Mozilla (community) stamp of approval. Many of our users have candidly said that the reason they use our tools (vs. a competitors) is that they are tools that respect the user's security and privacy.</div><div><br></div><div>Jess</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Mar 10, 2014, at 8:39 PM, David Ascher <<a href="mailto:da@mozillafoundation.org">da@mozillafoundation.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">On Mar 10, 2014, at 5:33 PM, Jon Buckley <<a href="mailto:jon@mozillafoundation.org">jon@mozillafoundation.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div>Almost all of the software we build our software on is community supported to some extent. If Mozilla decides to stop running Persona, we’ll get at least 6 months notice so I’m not concerned about a surprise shutdown notification.</div><div><br></div><div>The argument against using Persona has nearly always been “user experience sucks”. It uses popups, sometimes it uses a password you assign, sometimes you need to sign in to your yahoo or gmail account. And these pain points haven’t significantly changed in the past 1-2 years we’ve been using Persona.</div><div><br></div><div>However, this does need to be weighed against the costs of switching. Expanding on what William said:</div><div><br></div><div>* We would need to store our own passwords</div><div>* We would need to build password reset functionality. This would also be how you’d migrate your account from Persona to our own password</div><div>* We would need to build new sign in ui & backend functionality</div><div>* We would need to verify email addresses</div><div><br></div><div>And rather than my entire email be negative, here are some of the other opportunities Webmaker could look at if we decided to move away from Persona</div><div><br></div><div>* Maybe support Twitter or Facebook sign in?</div><div>* Support multiple sign ins for one account (ideal for shared group accounts, like @webmaker, @mozteach, or partners in the future)</div><div>* Implement Oauth 1.0a or 2.0 and allow anyone to write a website that uses Webmaker accounts</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Yup. I would add, to be provocative: support people with no email address but with phones. Those are going to be (strangely?) more common for us both in badge scenarios, in developing world scenarios, and in marginalized population scenarios.</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">My take is there’s no urgent need to do anything just because of the Persona announcement — but we should noodle on it, and maybe see if we can try different auth models in some scenarios so we can learn more about the impact (esp. on UX & conversion) of alternatives.</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">For example, as Appmaker has overlap but not 100% alignment w/ Webmaker audience, maybe it’d make sense to try (Persona+Facebook+Twitter) auth there, and use some A/B testing to see if it’s having a major or minor impact? Let’s learn from the quantitative analysis that Andrea did for fundraising for example. In that world, slight wording changes resulted in 10x changes in user behavior. </div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">—da</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Webmaker-dev mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Webmaker-dev@mozilla.org">Webmaker-dev@mozilla.org</a><br>https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/webmaker-dev<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>