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Hi Ryan,<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/28/20 2:25 PM, Ryan Sipes wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:92441a3a-8560-a0b8-529d-26972fef0e14@thunderbird.net">
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<p>I don't understand what the reasoning would be for preventing
MoCo people to hold seats? They aren't paid by Thunderbird/MZLA
and some of our most most active and longest engaged
contributors work at the corporation. It seems like discouraging
them from being involved without good reason.</p>
<p>I understand concern about people who are working for
Thunderbird who could set their own salary or something like
that. But Philipp and others like him at MoCo contribute in
their free time like any other volunteer, and oftentimes go
above and beyond to help us with exceptionally hard platform
issues. Their contributions are invaluable. So you either
disenfranchise employees (who already can only have two seats),
or you disenfranchise a very active group of contributors who
have nothing to personally gain from participating on Council.</p>
</blockquote>
Why would they stop working if they do not get a council seat, just
because 2 colleagues got more votes in a fully transparent,
democratic process? I do not see your logic either. Would that not
mean they are not doing it for the project? Were there no major
contributors, who were/are not part of Mozilla, in the history of
Thunderbird? <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:92441a3a-8560-a0b8-529d-26972fef0e14@thunderbird.net">
<p>I don't see the logic.<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
I do not have all the past details, but I think there were times
when MoFo was looking to unload Thunderbird and there were times
when MoFo was happy to have Thunderbird, before and after MoFo was
considering to push Thunderbird out. Change happens all the time.<br>
<br>
Hence we should have rules that are clear, transparent and equal for
all that can stand the test of time and remain fair in good times
and in bad times. Use proven definitions from corporate law and/or
accounting to define what is a group and what is a subsidiary. In
times of crisis, it is normal that all members of a group will be
requested to be on the same page. <br>
<br>
--ba<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:92441a3a-8560-a0b8-529d-26972fef0e14@thunderbird.net">
<p> </p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/28/20 2:54 PM, Magnus Melin
wrote:<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-09-27 21:58, Berna Alp
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:e3f1683e-a770-f31c-040b-2691962d90c0@pep-project.org"><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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display: inline !important; float: none;"><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Corbel; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
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normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none; display: inline !important;
float: none;">In the call: Magnus, Ryan, Wayne, Patrick,
Jörg, Philipp</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Corbel; font-size: 13px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
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<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Corbel; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
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text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none; display: inline !important;
float: none;">Regrets: Berna</span></span>
<ul style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration:
none;">
<li>Elections - Motion from Philipp to update the election
organization/association/unit rules to add MZLA: The
'Mozilla Corporation' [1], the 'Mozilla Foundation', and
‘MZLA Technologies’ are (considered) separate companies
for purposes of "professional affiliation". Motion passed:
5 yes, 1 abstain</li>
</ul>
A motion was put forward by Philipp, who has a conflict of
interest. Then it should also never have been seconded. And at
least 3 people would have had to abstain for conflict of
interest on this vote because they are employed by the
entities in question. </blockquote>
<p>That rule was agreed upon for two simple reasons:<br>
</p>
<ul>
<li>prevent that an inner circle of staff on council from
driving up the salaries for them selves<br>
</li>
<li>prevent a rough takeover by some 3rd party</li>
</ul>
<p>None of these reasons have any relevance across the Mozilla
organizational borders: MZLA does not set salaries for
MoFo/MoCo employees or any other way around. MoFo, nor MoCo
could (within reasonable fantasy) have any reason to want to
do a rough takeover.</p>
<p> -Magnus<br>
</p>
<br>
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