<html><head></head><body>The brainstorming wasn't conducted in secret, it was conducted with my fellow Council members. Which is normal, as the elected decision makers of the project, that we would have these sort of discussions. What I was upset about in this instance is Berna shared only one part of a document out of context.<br><br>I am having this discussion now, with the electorate, prematurely. I was hoping to have a longer discussion with the Council to see if this was even a worthwhile thing to pursue. As I said, collecting ideas, iterating, discussing with people who are knowledgeable of all the factors at play. <br><br>Philipp even mentioned this as an area of interest in his post, this bringing everyone into this conversation. It's not something we are actively concealing.<br><br> Ryan<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On September 22, 2020 8:12:49 PM GMT+03:00, Eyal Rozenberg <eyalroz@technion.ac.il> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre dir="auto" class="k9mail">Ryan, your brainstorming should not have been conducted in secret. If <br>you (= the council) were mindful of your duty to your electorate, you <br>would have presented the alternatives with all the necessary context, a <br>while ago already.<br><br>I'm glad that Berna has decided to publish this document - which should <br>never have been kept secret - even if it's just before the elections. <br>Transparency is severely lacking in our project and I commend her for <br>taking us a step in the right direction on that issue.<br><br>Eyal<br><br>On 22/09/2020 15:57, Ryan Sipes wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">Berna and Thunderbird Community,<br><br>There are currently 4 different proposals (in the doc you are quoting <br>from) for how the Council, staff, and MZLA board would interact with <br>each other and where responsibilities would lie in that document. This <br>was one option and the document has multiple "TODOs" all over it where <br>more needs to be filled in. As the original author, it was intended as a <br>place to brainstorm and iterate, not a complete proposal (and it <br>couldn't be because there are multiple, very different, ideas for for <br>how responsibilities could be split within it).<br><br>Coming up with ideas for how to do this is an iterative process and <br>presenting this as the pre-agreed upon outcome before anyone has voted <br>or even finished sharing their thoughts is upsetting to me. I have put <br>forward a number of ideas on this front for how we could streamline <br>processes in Thunderbird instead of having the Council decide on every <br>single expenditure, hire, and various other day-to-day operations.<br><br>Many Council members perform all sorts of roles as volunteers, often <br>working full-time jobs on top of their full-time jobs on Council work <br>(just ask Wayne). As a result, offloading some of that responsibility to <br>our paid team members is an area of discussion, but there is still a lot <br>more to do on this front before it's ready for a vote.<br><br>This out-of-context presentation of what is being discussed is misleading.<br><br>Ryan<br><br>On 9/22/20 3:45 PM, Berna Alp wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hello all,<br><br> On 9/21/20 7:29 PM, Eyal Rozenberg wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;">* Haven't decided yet?<br></blockquote> I have not yet decided to run, but I would invite anyone who cares <br> about keeping Thunderbird a community-run project, to be a candidate, <br> because of the following:<br><br> Biggest Challenge for next year<br><br> The next council will oversee change in the model of operation. <br> Philipp has announced this in his personal statement, so he does not <br> see that as a confidential council subject, I provide some insight <br> into this most CRITICAL subject and how it may look.<br><br> There is a draft proposal to the Council that envisions a staff <br> organization with CEO and similar staff roles, WHERE the role for the <br> future Thunderbird Council Responsibilities were narrowed (that was <br> the actual word) to ONE single item:<br><br> * Approving a yearly budget<br><br> Surrounded with a little fluff like <br> ‘helping the team…’ and ‘championing community concerns’, effectively <br> meaning RIEN DU TOUT.<br><br> Such a Council will have no effective role, other than to exist as a <br> facade. You may as well eliminate it as waste of time. This proposal <br> leaves the Council with ZERO power in the future, and hands ALL <br> executive power to the staff members, WITHOUT a proper and effective <br> oversight mechanism. One of the worries was how to avoid a rogue <br> council? As if an_elected_council could ever be rogue...It has <br> something to do with democracy.<br><br> I have been the only Council member pushing back against this <br> proposal, which is effectively fully removing the community and the <br> council from any decision, power and oversight, and this will hence <br> likely be implemented if the Council does not change in <br> composition/majority.<br><br> I believe that change is necessary in the management of Thunderbird <br> and further professionalism is a good thing, qualified staff and best <br> practices should be the goal. Governance and conflict of interest <br> processes should be clearly defined, independently monitored and <br> transparent to all.<br><br> This proposal for future Council role is a change in the wrong <br> direction by removing effective community oversight of the staff <br> positions and of the future of Thunderbird. It will be the END of <br> Thunderbird as a community project. There is no way back if it happens.<br><br> I encourage every community member on the electoral roll to self <br> nominate, especially if you care and remember that you get what you <br> vote for.<br><br> If you want me to run again, drop me a personal note. A few positives <br> nudges may remind me why I did this in the first place…<br><br> Regards,<br> --ba<hr> tb-planning mailing list<br> tb-planning@mozilla.org<br> <a href="https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning">https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning</a><br></blockquote><br>*This email is from an external mail server, be judicious when opening <br>attachments or links *<hr>tb-planning mailing list<br>tb-planning@mozilla.org<br><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.mozilla.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftb-planning&data=02%7C01%7Ceyalroz%40ef.technion.ac.il%7Cf2093c5c7b084b1096b508d85ef71dc8%7Cf1502c4cee2e411c9715c855f6753b84%7C1%7C0%7C637363762786622589&sdata=G1qSZ9FWlRfnwRwrZuO9eYpE%2B%2Fn4%2FLmC5rDQyRZlnc0%3D&reserved=0">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.mozilla.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftb-planning&data=02%7C01%7Ceyalroz%40ef.technion.ac.il%7Cf2093c5c7b084b1096b508d85ef71dc8%7Cf1502c4cee2e411c9715c855f6753b84%7C1%7C0%7C637363762786622589&sdata=G1qSZ9FWlRfnwRwrZuO9eYpE%2B%2Fn4%2FLmC5rDQyRZlnc0%3D&reserved=0</a><br><br></blockquote></pre></blockquote></div><br>-- <br>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.</body></html>