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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Alessandro Castellani wrote on 11.05.19
01:15:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3e2eadbe-a129-54c3-0f67-db5a9b430f63@thunderbird.net">
<p>Tanstaafl raises some great points that make me think about the
difference between <i>manual config</i> and <i>advanced config</i>...what's
the difference?e</p>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I've explained the difference between Manual Config and Advanced
Config:</p>
<p>In the manual configuration mode of the dialog, there needs to be
the "Advanced Config" button. I know it's odd, but it's needed for
really fringe edge cases. </p>
<p>The manual configuration is not for end advanced end users. It's
for those users where we failed to find a working configuration
automatically, but these are still normal non-techy users. They
will need to gather the server name from some configuration page
of their company somewhere. And we help them making this</p>
<ul>
<li>as comfortable as possible (by prefilling the correct ports,
authentication method etc.)</li>
<li>helping them getting it right (by validating the input and
checking that it works), and</li>
<li>making it as secure as possible (by using SSL when possible,
and making it easy to enable and test whether SSL works).</li>
</ul>
<p>The "Advanced Config" button is needed for really fringe edge
cases, like obscure required options, rare cases where our
validation fails due to a strange mail server, and people wanting
to set up the account while being offline. It doesn't make much
sense, but there have been multiple very angry requests for that.
This one button is the escape route for all those edge cases. If
we do not have this escape route, these people will demand options
for their specific case all over the place, and each will have a
good legitimate (even though rare) reason for why they need it,
and we'll have to discuss how to accommodate them, one by one. If
we were to remove "Advanced Config", we would have endless
discussions how to fulfill all the different odd needs, and
consequently destroy the normal path. That would make nobody
really happy, and waste time in discussions (you have no idea how
much time). By allowing this simple escape route for advanced
users, where we make absolutely no checks, and the user can just
mis-configure whatever he wants, we make the power users and IT
admins happy, without compromising the normal path for normal end
users.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
I hope you see the idea behind the current dialog: Make as much
automatic as possible. Allow override where it fails. Do show things
that we absolutely need to get a working configuration, and help as
much as possible. Do not show things that are not normally needed
for most users, but allow this to be available for those who do need
it.
<p> </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3e2eadbe-a129-54c3-0f67-db5a9b430f63@thunderbird.net">
<p>Also, what's so drastically important inside the <i>Account
Settins > Server Settings</i> that it's not available
inside the <i>manual config</i>?</p>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>There are tons of little settings that we definitely do *not*
want in the normal setup flow. There is an endless flow of edge
cases, special circumstances, need this or that, all with
reasonable justifications for their specific case, but it applies
only to 0.01% of the users. We should not clutter the normal flow
with them. Nor build special exceptions for them</p>
<p>Like "what happens when you're offline", "what happens when your
SMTP password is different from your IMAP password", which are
extremely rare, but valid cases. If we try to accomodate them, 2
things will happen: we will spend endless time discussing how to
do it, and 2) we will clutter the dialog and flow and make it
worse for normal users.</p>
<p>Instead of discussing those one by one, just make an escape route
which covers those rare cases, and leave the normal flow alone.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3e2eadbe-a129-54c3-0f67-db5a9b430f63@thunderbird.net">
<p>I think having 2 options, simple (guided) and advanced
(manual), could solve a lot of complexity<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Right, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. The "Advanced Config"
button effectively does that.<br>
</p>
<p>
But it would also make sense to add a little option in the first
screen. Inside the "..." menu button, where you currently have put
movemail, add "Advanced config". In this mode, there are no
checks, and you drop into the Account Settings dialog as quickly
as technically possible.</p>
<p>I think that would make both camps happy: a) we keep the normal
user flow streamlines and helpful and free of clutter and
confusing options, and b) we allow advanced users to configure
everything they want, without checks, and both are happy.</p>
<p>Ben<br>
</p>
<p>Ben<br>
</p>
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