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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19-Mar-19 10:09 PM, neandr wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:a1c38265-ee7e-b010-d1f6-665a7e0ee83c@gmx.de">
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<p>Some comments about Matt's notes ... see inline .. <br>
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<p>Günter<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.03.19 um 11:54 schrieb Matt
Harris:<br>
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<font face="Calibri"><...> <br>
<br>
I would still like to see add-ons removed from the top menu
and replaced with a general info block pointing the use to the
add-on manager, which I am seeing as another page link lower
in the wire frame.<br>
<br>
Can we also get away from the grey on grey and black on grey
which are so difficult to read. They look pretty, but unless
your monitor and graphic is really u to snuff they are not a
good choice to actually read.<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote>
<font face="Calibri">Addons are an essential part of the TB
offering and the user should have a short path to get to. So the
[Add-Ons] button at the first line is OK. </font><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<font face="Calibri">Yes they are integral, we also want to have
your users downloading and installing from within the add-on
manager. This is not Firefox, going to ATN in a browser is not
the short way to install a working valid for your version of
Thunderbird add-on. So would it be ok of ATN simply removed the
download buttons for addons when viewed in a browser? I would not
like to go that far. But I am tired of the regular post of I
downloaded the XPI file but I double click it and nothing happens,
or it refuses to install. Until we fix the ATN site and the
add-on manager I think we are honour bound to NOT make it more
complicated for the average user. an Add-ons menu item does
that. You clearly disagree, so we will have to agree to disagree
and others can make the decision for us based on our comments to
this subject. Perhaps we need more localization to the operating
system so double clicking an XPI file does do something on
Windows. But I am talking about what is best for the web site. I
have no control over what developers think is important with
Thunderbird.</font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a1c38265-ee7e-b010-d1f6-665a7e0ee83c@gmx.de"> <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:dabb4e86-eb10-7c6a-efd2-9e53082fad31@gmail.com"><font
face="Calibri">We need to finally remove the lightning
download from the web site. Some Linux maintainers do not
bundle it, but that is not our problem. WE do bundle it for
all operating systems. For Linux users that have issues with
their distributions copies should be addressing their issues
to the maintainers, not having Thunderbird take the
retrograde step to go back in time to when their maintainers
are living. Sorry Linux folks, but that is one of the
reasons Linux is still niche. Maintainers and other
individuals is positions of power make appalling decisions and
everyone just works around them. The download link needs to
be removed and we should be encouraging folk to click yes on
the first run install. Instead of catering to a small group of
loud minority product users by offering a totally useless
download link that will start an install process in the
hardest possible way that is to install a product that more
than 90% of users get with their install. Many users just
have that install pane on the bottom of the windows basically
for ever, they often appear in screen shots in support
topics. They really have no idea what it is and ignore it as
it does not prevent mail activities.<br>
<br>
Given the explosion of support request for folk already on the
beta channel about their "functions" that have been removed by
uncaring developers, I think it is probably going to be a
long haul until the add-on environment supports the top 20 or
30% of add-ons. WE need to warn folk that those cuttong edges
do in fact have blood on them and it is not always plain
sailing. If it was it would be a release version.<br>
</font></blockquote>
<p>Also I don't fully understand your concerns here, what is the
problem to inform the vistor of the page to get some hints about
Lightning?</p>
<p>Leave the section.<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
Give all the hints you like. Just don't offer a download link that
is useful for less that 10% of site visitors. Confusing and counter
productive for the other 90+%. If your distribution is not building
and packaging Lightning with their repo, that is something that
your distribution must fix. But modifying the web site because your
maintainer is not living in the same world as the rest of us and
failing to deliver functional software as intended is not really an
option. For instance Lightning is available in the ubuntu
repository, more convenient for most users that get software from
that repository. But that is not an issue for Thunderbird. it is an
issue for the relevant distribution.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a1c38265-ee7e-b010-d1f6-665a7e0ee83c@gmx.de"><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:dabb4e86-eb10-7c6a-efd2-9e53082fad31@gmail.com"><font
face="Calibri"> <br>
I also think that if we have a prominent option for a page
Language that will actually change the locale, then the other
discussion about systems and languages becomes moot. Change
the display language to Macedonian and you get a Macedonian
download offered. From my scrolling up and down and left and
right, it look to be currently way to the bottom and out of
view on page load. It needs to be up the top where it can be
found as soon as the page loads in the wrong language. A good
place might be the space left by the add-ons link in the menu.<br>
<br>
This is as I understand is something of an issue for a lot of
British expats in Spain. They want British English
Thunderbird but get Spanish, so there are multiple use cases
where another language might be required.<br>
</font></blockquote>
<p>A real good point.<br>
</p>
<p>Selection for the page and for the download should separated.
That is choosing the page language (manually or because of the
OS or so) should not hard set the downloaded language version.</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think the download button should offer the language of the page
and only that as well as the operating system from the browser
string. Inconvenience is one of the side effects of munging browser
strings. Convenience is one of the benefits of leaving it honest.
Clicking download should most certainly not open pandora's box of
languages and operating systems. There is an X in the corner of the
page that will be the common response to that.<br>
<br>
The base web site really must be designed for a poorly trained
monkey if it is to be successful. With the language skills of a
8-10 years old child. This is not being derogatory, it was in my
training 30 years ago for writing government copy, and
correspondence. Other languages as Wayne suggested should be in the
"other languages" page. But instead of a little "link" under the
download button to the other languages page make it one of those
blocks like are used for lightning... "want to see what other
community languages Thunderbird is available in. Want to download
it for another operating system and perhaps a bit of a we need help
in localisation.<br>
<br>
<br>
Matt<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
“Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.”
<i>― Friedrich von Schiller, Die Jungfrau von Orleans </i></div>
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