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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/19/2019 8:19 AM, Matt Harris
wrote:<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19-Mar-19 10:09 PM, neandr wrote:<br>
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<p>Some comments about Matt's notes ... see inline .. <br>
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<p>Günter<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.03.19 um 11:54 schrieb Matt
Harris:<br>
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<font face="Calibri"><...> <br>
<br>
I would still like to see add-ons removed from the top menu
and replaced with a general info block pointing the use to
the add-on manager, which I am seeing as another page link
lower in the wire frame.<br>
<br>
Can we also get away from the grey on grey and black on grey
which are so difficult to read. They look pretty, but
unless your monitor and graphic is really u to snuff they
are not a good choice to actually read.<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote>
<font face="Calibri">Addons are an essential part of the TB
offering and the user should have a short path to get to. So
the [Add-Ons] button at the first line is OK. </font><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<font face="Calibri">Yes they are integral, we also want to have
your users downloading and installing from within the add-on
manager. This is not Firefox, going to ATN in a browser is not
the short way to install a working valid for your version of
Thunderbird add-on. So would it be ok of ATN simply removed the
download buttons for addons when viewed in a browser? I would
not like to go that far. But I am tired of the regular post of
I downloaded the XPI file but I double click it and nothing
happens, or it refuses to install. Until we fix the ATN site
and the add-on manager I think we are honour bound to NOT make
it more complicated for the average user. an Add-ons menu item
does that. You clearly disagree, so we will have to agree to
disagree and others can make the decision for us based on our
comments to this subject. Perhaps we need more localization to
the operating system so double clicking an XPI file does do
something on Windows. But I am talking about what is best for
the web site. I have no control over what developers think is
important with Thunderbird.</font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a1c38265-ee7e-b010-d1f6-665a7e0ee83c@gmx.de"> <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:dabb4e86-eb10-7c6a-efd2-9e53082fad31@gmail.com"><font
face="Calibri">We need to finally remove the lightning
download from the web site. Some Linux maintainers do not
bundle it, but that is not our problem. WE do bundle it
for all operating systems. For Linux users that have issues
with their distributions copies should be addressing their
issues to the maintainers, not having Thunderbird take the
retrograde step to go back in time to when their maintainers
are living. Sorry Linux folks, but that is one of the
reasons Linux is still niche. Maintainers and other
individuals is positions of power make appalling decisions
and everyone just works around them. The download link
needs to be removed and we should be encouraging folk to
click yes on the first run install. Instead of catering to a
small group of loud minority product users by offering a
totally useless download link that will start an install
process in the hardest possible way that is to install a
product that more than 90% of users get with their
install. Many users just have that install pane on the
bottom of the windows basically for ever, they often appear
in screen shots in support topics. They really have no idea
what it is and ignore it as it does not prevent mail
activities.<br>
<br>
Given the explosion of support request for folk already on
the beta channel about their "functions" that have been
removed by uncaring developers, I think it is probably
going to be a long haul until the add-on environment
supports the top 20 or 30% of add-ons. WE need to warn folk
that those cuttong edges do in fact have blood on them and
it is not always plain sailing. If it was it would be a
release version.<br>
</font></blockquote>
<p>Also I don't fully understand your concerns here, what is the
problem to inform the vistor of the page to get some hints
about Lightning?</p>
<p>Leave the section.<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
Give all the hints you like. Just don't offer a download link
that is useful for less that 10% of site visitors. Confusing and
counter productive for the other 90+%. If your distribution is
not building and packaging Lightning with their repo, that is
something that your distribution must fix. But modifying the web
site because your maintainer is not living in the same world as
the rest of us and failing to deliver functional software as
intended is not really an option. For instance Lightning is
available in the ubuntu repository, more convenient for most
users that get software from that repository. But that is not an
issue for Thunderbird. it is an issue for the relevant
distribution.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a1c38265-ee7e-b010-d1f6-665a7e0ee83c@gmx.de"><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:dabb4e86-eb10-7c6a-efd2-9e53082fad31@gmail.com"><font
face="Calibri"> <br>
I also think that if we have a prominent option for a page
Language that will actually change the locale, then the
other discussion about systems and languages becomes moot.
Change the display language to Macedonian and you get a
Macedonian download offered. From my scrolling up and down
and left and right, it look to be currently way to the
bottom and out of view on page load. It needs to be up the
top where it can be found as soon as the page loads in the
wrong language. A good place might be the space left by the
add-ons link in the menu.<br>
<br>
This is as I understand is something of an issue for a lot
of British expats in Spain. They want British English
Thunderbird but get Spanish, so there are multiple use cases
where another language might be required.<br>
</font></blockquote>
<p>A real good point.<br>
</p>
<p>Selection for the page and for the download should separated.
That is choosing the page language (manually or because of the
OS or so) should not hard set the downloaded language version.</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think the download button should offer the language of the page
and only that as well as the operating system from the browser
string. Inconvenience is one of the side effects of munging
browser strings. Convenience is one of the benefits of leaving it
honest. Clicking download should most certainly not open
pandora's box of languages and operating systems. There is an X
in the corner of the page that will be the common response to
that.<br>
<br>
The base web site really must be designed for a poorly trained
monkey if it is to be successful. With the language skills of a
8-10 years old child. This is not being derogatory, it was in my
training 30 years ago for writing government copy, and
correspondence. Other languages as Wayne suggested should be in
the "other languages" page. But instead of a little "link" under
the download button to the other languages page make it one of
those blocks like are used for lightning... "want to see what
other community languages Thunderbird is available in. Want to
download it for another operating system and perhaps a bit of a we
need help in localisation.<br>
<br>
<br>
Matt</blockquote>
<p>It seems like the decision about the addons user experience
should be based on the best interest of the average user.<br>
</p>
<p>Which ultimately means, I think, that this decision should be in
the capable hands of our new UX person - informed by user and
community feedback of course.<br>
</p>
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