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      <p>Dear Joachim,</p>
      <p>hmm, that looks like more m-c changes (of the Firefox don't
        care about legacy add-ons variety) floating down from Fx, <i><b>is
            it time to fork M-C yet</b></i>? I still assume that forking
        M-C is the only permanent fix and not waiting for Add-ons bit
        rot. <u><b>My hope is that ESR2019 will still support Add-ons.
          </b></u>Which means Tb Development needs to figure out a way
        to be more independent from Quantum.<br>
      </p>
      <p>Both at least XPCOM access and the overlay mechanisms are vital
        for writing functioning "deep" add-ons (whether you label that
        legacy or some other term doesn't really matter and  does not
        detract from the fact that it is currently not replaced with a
        viable alternative that gives full access to everything.<br>
      </p>
      <p>Axel<br>
      </p>
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      <div id="mySignature"> <b class="myName"><a
            href="mailto:axel.grude@gmail.com">Axel Grude</a></b> <br>
        Music Production and Composition <br>
        Thunderbird Add-ons Developer <span class="AddonList">(<a
href="https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/quickfolders-tabbed-folders/">QuickFolders</a>,
          <a
            href="https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/quickfilters/">quickFilters</a>,
          <a
            href="https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/quickpasswords/">QuickPasswords</a>,
          <a
            href="https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/zombie-keys/">Zombie
            Keys</a>, <a
            href="https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/smarttemplate4/">SmartTemplate4</a>)</span>
        <br>
        Visit my <a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/thunderbirddaily">YouTube
          Channel</a> for email productivity tips <img
          style="margin-top: 1em; float: right; box-shadow: 1px 1px 2px
          rgba(20, 20, 20, 0.4);" moz-do-not-send="false" class="myLogo"
          src="cid:part8.9EBA04DC.8749A054@gmail.com" alt="Get
          Thunderbird!" height="15" width="94">
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      <blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: -20px !important;
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        <div id="newHeaderAG1" style="font-size: x-small; padding:1em;
          background-color:rgba(220,220,240,0.4); border-radius:3px;"> <b>Subject:</b>Re:
          Supporting future addon development<br>
          <b>From:</b>Joachim Herb <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:joachim.herb@gmx.de"><joachim.herb@gmx.de></a><br>
          <b>To:</b>Axel Grude; Tb-planning; Eyal Rozenberg <br>
          <b>Sent: </b>Saturday, 21/04/2018 00:42:16 00:42 GMT ST +0100
          [Week 16]<br>
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      </blockquote>
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    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:3dd8d9aa-449b-5895-0df0-7bad56cf6387@gmx.de"
      id="mid_3dd8d9aa_449b_5895_0df0_7bad56cf6387_gmx_de" class=" cite">Dear
      Eyal and Axel,
      <br>
      <br>
      thank you for your answer.
      <br>
      <br>
      Just two clarifications:
      <br>
      - With Thunderbird 61.0a1 it looks like only bootstrapped addons
      work (at the moment). See e.g.
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1449149">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1449149</a> With the
      current beta version 60.0 it looks like XUL addons still work with
      the changes you mentioned below.
      <br>
      - At <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/">https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/</a> you get the
      builds but not the mozmill test archives (with the exception of
      the ESR builds). For betas, they can be found for candidate
      builds, e.g. at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/candidates/60.0b3-candidates/build1/win32/en-US/">https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/candidates/60.0b3-candidates/build1/win32/en-US/</a>.
      For nightlys they have to be downloaded from
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=comm-central">https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=comm-central</a>
      <br>
      <br>
      Best regards,
      <br>
      Joachim
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Am 20.04.2018 um 22:02 schrieb Axel Grude:
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite" id="Cite_188123" class=" cite">Dear
        Joachim,
        <br>
        <br>
        if you need help contact me off list, you can make a few simple
        changes and your overlays will work again.
        <br>
        <br>
        Jörg kindly provided a "cook-book" with steps to make our
        Add-ons compatible again:
        <br>
        <br>
        <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Add-ons_Guide_57">https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Add-ons_Guide_57</a>
        <br>
        <br>
        <blockquote type="cite" id="Cite_942891" class=" cite">-
          Overlays are not working anymore in addons. The addons have to
          be rewritten as bootstrapped addons.
          <br>
        </blockquote>
        Not true - you do not need to make your addon restartless in
        Thunderbird. XUL is still alive and well.
        <br>
        <br>
        As first quickfix, in order to make any preferences / dialogs
        work again, you have to add:
        <br>
        <br>
        <?xml-stylesheet
        href=<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="chrome://messenger/skin/preferences/preferences.css">"chrome://messenger/skin/preferences/preferences.css"</a>
        type="text/css" ?>
        <br>
        <br>
        (it will be backward compatible)
        <br>
        <br>
        <blockquote type="cite" id="Cite_4985623" class=" cite">- The
          beta channel on AMO has gone.
          <br>
        </blockquote>
        Thunderbird is currently moving to thunderbird.net, please stand
        by for the new system. In the meantime, I think you can get
        betas / test versions / dailys / nightlies from the ftp server:
        <br>
        <br>
        <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/">https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/</a>
        <br>
        <br>
        kind regards, hth,
        <br>
           Axel
        <br>
        <br>
        *Axel Grude <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:axel.grude@gmail.com"><mailto:axel.grude@gmail.com></a>*
        <br>
        Music Production and Composition
        <br>
        Thunderbird Add-ons Developer (QuickFolders
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/quickfolders-tabbed-folders/"><https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/quickfolders-tabbed-folders/></a>,
        quickFilters
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/quickfilters/"><https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/quickfilters/></a>,
        QuickPasswords
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/quickpasswords/"><https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/quickpasswords/></a>,
        Zombie Keys
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/zombie-keys/"><https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/zombie-keys/></a>,
        SmartTemplate4
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/smarttemplate4/"><https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/smarttemplate4/></a>)
        <br>
        Visit my YouTube Channel
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.youtube.com/c/thunderbirddaily"><https://www.youtube.com/c/thunderbirddaily></a> for email
        productivity tips Get Thunderbird!
        <br>
        <blockquote type="cite" id="Cite_9718006" class=" cite">*Subject:*Supporting
          future addon development
          <br>
          *From:*Joachim Herb <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:joachim.herb@gmx.de"><joachim.herb@gmx.de></a>
          <br>
          *To:*Tb-planning
          <br>
          *Sent: *Friday, 20/04/2018 15:58:06 15:58 GMT ST +0100 [Week
          16]
          <br>
          Dear Thunderbird developers,
          <br>
          <br>
          I am writing this, because I develop an addon for Thunderbird
          (CompactHeader) which still seems quite popular.
          <br>
          <br>
          Currently, major changes have happened in the Thunderbird
          ecosystem which make the addon development more difficult:
          <br>
          <br>
          - The beta channel on AMO has gone.
          <br>
          - Overlays are not working anymore in addons. The addons have
          to be rewritten as bootstrapped addons.
          <br>
          - It became difficult to download the latest nightly builds
          for Thunderbird.
          <br>
          <br>
          Actually, I noticed the last two changes, because I have setup
          Travis-CI and Appveyor tests for my addon (perhaps also
          interesting for other addon authors:
          <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/jmozmoz/compactheader">https://github.com/jmozmoz/compactheader</a>) using mozmill tests.
          <br>
          <br>
          How do you plan (this is the planning mailing list eventually)
          to support addon developers in the future? Here are some
          suggestions, which could make life easier:
          <br>
          <br>
          - Provide fixed links to the latest builds and the mozmill zip
          files of all channels (release, esr, beta, nightly).
          <br>
          - Perhaps even setup a dedicated CI environment to test the
          latest Thunderbird builds with selected addons.
          <br>
          - Find some replacement for the beta channel of AMO: At the
          very beginning of development of my addon I used mozdev.org to
          distribute builds. But how to create a community of beta
          testers for addons? Could there be a (again) a centralized way
          to distribute beta versions of addons and perhaps advertise
          the new way to the users of Thunderbird beta (and nightly)?
          <br>
          - Communicate major changes (like drop of overlay support, or
          the incompatibilities introduced with Thunderbird 60.0 beta)
          to addon developers (perhaps via AMO)?
          <br>
          - Provide an example for a bootstrapped Thunderbird add-on
          which modifies the UI (replacement for XUL overlay).
          <br>
          <br>
          One of the points, which is mentioned why people like
          Thunderbird, is the ability to customize it by using addons.
          So it should be in the interest of the future development of
          Thunderbird, to keep addons alive.
          <br>
          <br>
          Thank you for your work and your help.
          <br>
          Joachim
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          _______________________________________________
          <br>
          tb-planning mailing list
          <br>
          <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tb-planning@mozilla.org">tb-planning@mozilla.org</a>
          <br>
          <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning">https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning</a>
          <br>
          <br>
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        <br>
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      .
      <br>
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