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<p>Dear Ben,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>
<blockquote type="cite">The problem is: There's no way to
decouple Thunderbird from XUL or from XPCOM, so that's the end
of Thunderbird as we know it. </blockquote>
</p>
<p>++1</p>
<p>And for all my Addons. I may be able to port my Firefox addons
to e10s but once XUL becomes deprecated I may lose interest in
them. I can't even imagine the Thunderbird ones without XPCOM.
So I am still hoping on a fork - Postbox could do it and they
continually innovated their features; why should it be
impossible with Thunderbird?</p>
<p>+1 still for hiring an Architect. And hopefully some thinking
about how XPCOM can be wrapped in an API that is more mail
centric.<br>
</p>
<p>Axel<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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<b class="myName" style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px #DDD;
transition:font-size 0.5s;"><a
href="mailto:axel.grude@gmail.com">Axel Grude</a></b>
<br>
Software Developer
<br>
Thunderbird Add-ons Developer
<span style="color:#666666; font-size:xx-small">(<a
href="https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/quickfolders-tabbed-folders/">QuickFolders</a>,
<a
href="https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/quickfilters/">quickFilters</a>,
<a
href="https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/quickpasswords/">QuickPasswords</a>,
<a
href="https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/zombie-keys/">Zombie
Keys</a>, <a
href="https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/smarttemplate4/">SmartTemplate4</a>)</span>
<br>
AMO Editor<br>
Visit my <a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/thunderbirddaily">YouTube
Channel</a> for productivity tips
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<blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: -20px !important;
padding-bottom:20px !important;">
<div id="newHeaderAG1" style="font-size: x-small; padding:1em;
background-color:rgba(220,220,240,0.4); border-radius:3px;"> <b>Subject:</b>Re:
What happened to hiring an architect?<br>
<b>From:</b>Ben Bucksch <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ben.bucksch@beonex.com"><ben.bucksch@beonex.com></a><br>
<b>To:</b>Tb-planning <br>
<b>Sent: </b>Friday, 09/12/2016 20:25:37 20:25 GMT ST +0000
[Week 49]<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote class=" cite"
id="mid_6535d802_ca7d_794c_1b93_9ac5281f10c4_beonex_com"
cite="mid:6535d802-ca7d-794c-1b93-9ac5281f10c4@beonex.com"
type="cite">R Kent James wrote on 29.09.2016 19:13:
<br>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="Cite_9632855" type="cite">
<br>
I made an argument to Mozilla, that I believe was largely
accepted, that said that consulting on a future platform for
Thunderbird is not really what we need.
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'm sorry to object here, but that statement couldn't be more off.
<br>
<br>
Sorry, for being so harsh, but I think this needs to be put very
clearly. I say this with 17+ years of Thunderbird development
experience, and having built several commercial XUL-based
applications in the meantime, some of them widely used. I care
deeply about Thunderbird, and I want it to live on in the future.
This is why I cannot be silent on this point.
<br>
<br>
Thunderbird is facing the fact that in just 3 Firefox releases,
XUL extensions are deprecated, and in 7 releases, in less than 1
year, XUL extensions will be killed entirely for Firefox. If
Mozilla does that, then for a reason: They want to change the
underlying platform, away from XUL and XPCOM. And they will,
that's the declared plan.
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2016/11/23/add-ons-in-2017/">https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2016/11/23/add-ons-in-2017/</a>
<br>
<br>
So, in 1 year, Gecko 57 is no longer a viable basis for
Thunderbird. Thunderbird's foundation will fall underneath it.
This is a given.
<br>
<br>
The problem is: There's no way to decouple Thunderbird from XUL or
from XPCOM, so that's the end of Thunderbird as we know it. The
whole codebase intrinsically relies on these 2 technologies. We
also know that you have no chance to maintain backports of
critical security fixes to an older Gecko, because it needs very
specialized knowledge in Mozilla internals and in security, and
many with more money and with more expertise have tried and
failed. Nobody managed to do that, ever. You can't maintain your
own Gecko, with security backports, forever. So, forking isn't an
option, either. With luck and help from Mozilla in form of ESR and
similar, it might buy you a year, but no more. So, we'll be seeing
the cliff in 1 year from now, with an additional little life
support option for another year or so. That gives TB only 2 years
from now, 3 max.
<br>
<br>
So, our only long-term option is to rewrite. And this *is* the job
for an architect. That is the job definition. And it's crucially
necessary. This codebase is over 20 years old. It was created in
the early days of the Internet and Web, the oldest parts are from
1995 or so, and then the majority from 1998-2000, the XUL rewrite.
Back in 1998, during the XUL rewrite, it had an architect, done in
part by Alec Flett. Today, with XUL going away, it needs to be
re-architectured again, with current state of art and situation of
the world. A lot has changed since then: The web platform has
matured. Mobile appeared and is taking over the world. People are
using WhatsApp and Instagram instead of email to stay connected.
I'm not saying we should build an IM client, or a webmail client,
but we need a fresh start with all that change in mind. We're
facing a world who doesn't know what an desktop email client *is*.
We have a few *billion* users out there who are left out there
with nothing better than GMail and WhatsApp. We need something
better.
<br>
<br>
Have you ever seen a house that had a room attached here 30 years
later, and a garage attached there, and a winter garden over
there? It works, to some degree, but it's neither beautiful, nor
very functional for its inhabitants. You have to go long, windy
hallways to do what you need to do. Sounds familiar? Thunderbird
has the same problem. It makes me do work that I shouldn't need to
do.
<br>
<br>
We do need somebody to take the big picture, makes a coherent
architecture, and at least puts that up for discussion. That
person needs to know their job, and should have done that before,
with success, preferably in that magnitude. Architecture is not
something you can do piece-meal. It needs both the big picture
vision, to make a beautiful, coherent whole, and the attention to
detail to know what's realistic. Only then will it work well and
stand the test of time and be liked.
<br>
<br>
You absolutely need an architect to face the future. And you need
it now. The transition project needs to happen now, because it
takes 2-3 years to finish. Such a big project needs to start with
a plan. That is the job of an architect, to help you build that
plan. Please don't refuse offers of experienced, competent
architects that Mozilla offers you.
<br>
<br>
Ben
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
tb-planning mailing list
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tb-planning@mozilla.org">tb-planning@mozilla.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning">https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning</a>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
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