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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/02/2016 4:59 AM, Axel Grude
wrote:<br>
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<b>Subject:</b> Re: Example: Why I believe we need a new
HTML editor<br>
<b>From: </b>Matt Harris<br>
<b>To:</b> Tb-planning <br>
<b>Sent: </b>Saturday, 20/02/2016 14:47:33 14:47 GMT ST
+0000 [Week 7]<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/02/2016 4:07 AM, Ben Bucksch
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_56C752F2_1060101_beonex_com"
cite="mid:56C752F2.1060101@beonex.com" type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Axel Grude wrote on 17.02.2016
01:55:<br>
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<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_56C3C4E4_4010900_gmail_com"
cite="mid:56C3C4E4.4010900@gmail.com" type="cite">In our
Company people often use colors for showing "quote level"
(*) - you may argue because Outlook is too stupid to show
real quote levels.</blockquote>
<br>
Exactly. Outlook cannot quote properly.<br>
<br>
Using color for something semantically critical - as who wrote
what and what is part of the message what is not - is a really
really bad idea.<br>
<ol>
<li>red appears unreadable on my screen</li>
<li>people might be color-blind - particular red and green,
because 5% of males are red-green color blind</li>
<li>it's not machine-readable. <blockquote> or
plaintext "> " are, which allows nice recipient-side
formatting, collapsing, trimming etc.</li>
</ol>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="Cite_3255916" type="cite">(*)
one person may reply (inline) in red and then the next one
in green. One may say that this is "retarded" but we should
not ignore the way the ordinary user is going to use a tool.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
They do that only because Outlook gives them no other
reasonable option. It's not what the users want, but what
their tool enforces!<br>
<br>
Do not copy Outlook. Esp. in this area. We win hands-down in
this area. I think TB quotes in our reader look lovely and
clear. ***Please*** do not break or delude our excellent
quoting. It's essential, all of the above.<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="Cite_8086606" type="cite">we
could build a really cool UI and better features than
Outlook if we embraced the concept of customizable styles </blockquote>
<br>
Personally, I struggle with all editors, including LibreWriter
and Outlook. They always seem to get it wrong by continuing a
style that I intended only for 1 word or one paragraph,
sometimes just by pasting, but it continues for the rest of
the doc like that and I have to manually change it back.
Highly annoying. TB composer does that much better.<br>
<br>
Consider that email is something we write more quickly than
documents. The direction is rather to go even quicker, see
SMS, WhatsApp, and GMail and Apple are emulating that for
email with "quickresponse".<br>
<br>
That's not to say our Composer was perfect. But please don't
copy the mistakes of other applications, where we are miles
ahead.<br>
</blockquote>
The composer is terrible, users complain about it all the time.
It was ok a decade ago, but the last ten years have really put
some age on it.<br>
The users do not like it. They are particularly vociferous
about the size issue. They want numbers. Windows has numbers
for font sizes, so does everything in their experience except
Thunderbird, and they want it for their email. They do not care
about standards, HTML Vs printing or Interoperability. They do
their correspondence in XXXX font and XX size. And god help you
if you tell them that the font they have chosen is unlikely to
be visible to the recipient, let alone that the size they sat
might look different as well<br>
They want to be able to do pretty tables with pretty borders. <br>
They want to do background images.<br>
They want to paste tables and text from word and excel and have
them arrive looking like when they left the Microsoft product.
(sans table formatting anyone.)<br>
They want to specify line spacing and length. <br>
They want to set tabular tabs and even decimal tabs<br>
The want images to auto size and respect the orientation
information in the exif data. Lots of complaints about upside
down images over the years. The email looks fine on an iPhone
or pad<br>
<br>
In a nutshell they want a word processor that can turn their
creations into email.<br>
<br>
The composer might do quotes and do them well, but we offer no
customization of that either. You have to have an add-on to
change the layout of the quoted header information to the more
business styled (outlook) four lines. While you might strongly
disagree with coloured quote levels, I like them, almost as much
as I like Thunderbird's block quoting with lines. But we offer
no customization at all, after all it is up to the user if they
want to do something stupid with the customization like white
text on a white background, or try and retrieve mail very
minute.<br>
<br>
Matt<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
You can probably do pretty much anything you has described. But
you need to know HTML and CSS. And probably us the Stationery
Addon in order to edit the HTML source code (in its mostly broken
HTML tab). So in my mind adding a UI for things like colored
tables, background images. I think a built in HTML code editor
(tab) would be a good start<br>
<br>
There were some fixes around font sizes (and lengthy discussions
on it) so you might find this better once Tb45.0 lands.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I use Kaosmos HTML editor, not as much work space, but it just
works mostly. As my HTML is usually "pasted in" work space is not
all that important to me. Having said that, my needs are mostly
simple. I am "reporting" what I hear in support forums and while I
can do interesting things with HTML and CSS, most users can not and
are frustrated by the fact. It is also probably time we sorted out
the Audio issues in Bug 515082. Be it voice mail, greeting from the
grand kids or a your fired sound byte, we do support the media, but
fail with the issue of user control.<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_56C8B06C_3040708_gmail_com"
cite="mid:56C8B06C.3040708@gmail.com" type="cite"> <br>
Clipboard cross compatibility with Microsoft Editors is a big
difficult ask, and probably not worth the effort if we had built
in table formatting.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_56C8B06C_3040708_gmail_com"
cite="mid:56C8B06C.3040708@gmail.com" type="cite"> <br>
Axel<br>
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<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
“Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.”
<i>― Friedrich von Schiller, Die Jungfrau von Orleans </i></div>
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