<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Hi, <br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 06.07.2015 um 08:59 schrieb Dave
Koelmeyer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:559A2735.3010903@davekoelmeyer.co.nz"
type="cite"> On 19/06/15 13:02, Dave Koelmeyer wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:55836A29.8000609@davekoelmeyer.co.nz"
type="cite"> On 19/06/15 03:13, Jörg Knobloch wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5582E01F.60300@jorgk.com" type="cite">There
is nothing wrong with providing support for Mozilla products
on a commercial basis. <br>
<br>
The SUMO article is rather misleading <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/avoid-and-report-mozilla-tech-support-scams">https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/avoid-and-report-mozilla-tech-support-scams</a>
<br>
<br>
It states: <br>
Common technical support scams: <br>
Companies that charge you for installing Firefox or
Thunderbird. <br>
Companies that charge you for fixing or updating Firefox or
Thunderbird. <br>
<br>
This statement is simply wrong and has gone to far. <br>
<br>
Please explain what is wrong with entering a contract with
someone who needs Firefox or Thunderbird support and charging
for the services supplied? <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
As someone who runs a business providing <i>precisely this</i>
for Thunderbird (amongst other FOSS products), I agree with
Jörg. Specifically (referring to the article in its present
state) the first paragraph (<i>"Companies that ask for payment
or personal information for installing, updating or providing
support for Firefox or Thunderbird are not affiliated with
Mozilla and should be avoided."</i>), and bullet points two
and three. When I have a moment I'll suggest some rewording to
be helpful.</blockquote>
<br>
Hi, <br>
<br>
I'm not sure if the article has been tweaked all since
publication, but I'll suggest the following changes.<br>
<br>
Paragraph one, reworded:<br>
<br>
<i>"Mozilla does not charge for downloads, upgrades or technical
support, and does not endorse any company that does.</i></blockquote>
Why "and does not endorse any company that does"? This would still
translate to "Mozilla considers any company offering technical
support to be a bad thing". Which is still conflicting with the
correct statement below that there are many firms who provide
legitimate professional support for downloading, installing,
upgrading, and technical support for Mozilla products. After making
it clear that the products including their updates and the limited
technical support from Mozilla are free of charge at the source,
it's up to the user to judge if he needs additional paid services or
not. There's nothing wrong about such paid services, even for
downloading and installing (as long as they don't falsely claim that
Mozilla charges for something). On the contrary, the availability of
paid all-round services can even help people, institutions, or
companies make their choice in favor of Mozilla products if they
consider themselves in need of such services.<br>
<br>
This applies even more for Thunderbird where free technical support
from Mozilla is none, and from related others like the TB core team
it'll be very limited.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:559A2735.3010903@davekoelmeyer.co.nz"
type="cite"><i>Companies that ask for payment or personal
information for installing, updating or providing support for
Firefox or Thunderbird are not affiliated with Mozilla. While
many firms provide legitimate professional support for Mozilla
products, users should apply common sense and discretion when
seeking out or solicited by technical support companies."</i><br>
</blockquote>
Imo this sounds slightly odd grammatically (seeking out or solicited
by), and it might actually be clearer if we emphasise the passive of
"being solicited" by companies:<br>
<br>
<i>when seeking out or being solicited by technical support
companies."</i><br>
<blockquote cite="mid:559A2735.3010903@davekoelmeyer.co.nz"
type="cite"> <br>
And the current four "Common technical support scams" bullet
points reworded down to three:<br>
<ul>
<li><i>"Virus warnings that tell you to call a phone number,
download software or allow a virus scan."</i></li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li><i>"Companies specifically claiming to officially represent
Mozilla that charge you for installing, fixing and updating
Firefox or Thunderbird.</i><i>"</i><br>
</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li><i>"Phone calls from "Mozilla representatives" pressuring
you into paying for a service or granting access to your
computer."</i><br>
</li>
</ul>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- </pre>
</blockquote>
Much better!<br>
<br>
Thomas<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:559A2735.3010903@davekoelmeyer.co.nz"
type="cite">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">
Dave Koelmeyer
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://blog.davekoelmeyer.co.nz">http://blog.davekoelmeyer.co.nz</a></pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
tb-planning mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tb-planning@mozilla.org">tb-planning@mozilla.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning">https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 06.07.2015 um 08:59 schrieb Dave
Koelmeyer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:559A2735.3010903@davekoelmeyer.co.nz"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
On 19/06/15 13:02, Dave Koelmeyer wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:55836A29.8000609@davekoelmeyer.co.nz"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
On 19/06/15 03:13, Jörg Knobloch wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5582E01F.60300@jorgk.com" type="cite">There
is nothing wrong with providing support for Mozilla products
on a commercial basis. <br>
<br>
The SUMO article is rather misleading <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/avoid-and-report-mozilla-tech-support-scams">https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/avoid-and-report-mozilla-tech-support-scams</a>
<br>
<br>
It states: <br>
Common technical support scams: <br>
Companies that charge you for installing Firefox or
Thunderbird. <br>
Companies that charge you for fixing or updating Firefox or
Thunderbird. <br>
<br>
This statement is simply wrong and has gone to far. <br>
<br>
Please explain what is wrong with entering a contract with
someone who needs Firefox or Thunderbird support and charging
for the services supplied? <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
As someone who runs a business providing <i>precisely this</i>
for Thunderbird (amongst other FOSS products), I agree with
Jörg. Specifically (referring to the article in its present
state) the first paragraph (<i>"Companies that ask for payment
or personal information for installing, updating or providing
support for Firefox or Thunderbird are not affiliated with
Mozilla and should be avoided."</i>), and bullet points two
and three. When I have a moment I'll suggest some rewording to
be helpful.</blockquote>
<br>
Hi, <br>
<br>
I'm not sure if the article has been tweaked all since
publication, but I'll suggest the following changes.<br>
<br>
Paragraph one, reworded:<br>
<br>
<i>"Mozilla does not charge for downloads, upgrades or technical
support, and does not endorse any company that does. Companies
that ask for payment or personal information for installing,
updating or providing support for Firefox or Thunderbird are not
affiliated with Mozilla. While many firms provide legitimate
professional support for Mozilla products, users should apply
common sense and discretion when seeking out or solicited by
technical support companies."</i><br>
<br>
And the current four "Common technical support scams" bullet
points reworded down to three:<br>
<ul>
<li><i>"Virus warnings that tell you to call a phone number,
download software or allow a virus scan."</i></li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li><i>"Companies specifically claiming to officially represent
Mozilla that charge you for installing, fixing and updating
Firefox or Thunderbird.</i><i>"</i><br>
</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li><i>"Phone calls from "Mozilla representatives" pressuring
you into paying for a service or granting access to your
computer."</i><br>
</li>
</ul>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Dave Koelmeyer
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://blog.davekoelmeyer.co.nz">http://blog.davekoelmeyer.co.nz</a></pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
tb-planning mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tb-planning@mozilla.org">tb-planning@mozilla.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning">https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>