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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/02/2014 7:33 AM, Axel Grude
(Axel) wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:52FE84A6.4060304@gmail.com" type="cite">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Gets my vote (or ckeditor ?) - can't stand the ribbon mess.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Maybe you should have hung in there... Messy or not people HTML
mail users want an intuitive interface where they can easily use
and define styles without having to know CSS. And you can only
do this if you offer an interface that defines styles and is
easily extendable. It is a typical thing to say "I do not like
X" and "I like the look of that, because I know it" without
looking at the actual requirements people have. <br>
<br>
Replacing one interface with another which gives you the same
basic functionality of inserting predefined tags was not what I
was proposing. I am proposing full access to the powers that CSS
gives and a very simple interface to redefine the css attributes
without prior knowledge of CSS or HTML.<br>
<br>
In the corporate sector people take this pretty much for
granted. Click a style, define it, use it everywhere. </div>
</blockquote>
In the corporate world there will be, if your lucky, one person in
10 that gets styles. I had the misfortune to work in a 20 odd
thousand seat installation of Word Pro some years ago. We
considered ourselves lucky if one in 50 "got" styles. The net
result is a lot of people wasted a lot of time faffing around with
fonts and shadings and spacings because it just blew their minute
minds that a thing called a style had all that stuff in it. Some
spent far more time fiddling with appearance attributes after the
typing was done than they spent on the composition in the first
place. Some years later Microsoft came out with the format
painter, and while I have never looked at how it works in detail,
the user still does not need to get styles. They point the format
painter to the bit they like and copy it. The format painter then
paints the rest with the same attributes. <br>
<br>
The average user has no knowledge of markup. They did not even get
taught tabs in a secretarial course. That is why your format
painter type interface is so successful with users. They have no
idea what they are doing so of course they need pictures. Just as I
had picture books once with a picture of a cat and the word cat
underneath.<br>
<br>
We still have users who do not get tabs and complain in support that
their inbox is missing from the screen. So when making user
assumptions. Aim low, and then set your sights lower still and you
will probably be close.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:52FE84A6.4060304@gmail.com" type="cite">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Whether you call it Ribbon or have
separate toolbars / areas / for the various styles is just a
design detail, and can be maybe solved in a better way. however
what we have now on the formatting bar is not good enough. And
the markup it creates is not up to date, we do not want to
create endless cascades of <font> <big>
<small> etc, and put a lot of pain into making an email
layout.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Agreed entirely. What is there is sadly out of touch with
expectations. However the user expectations I see in support are
far more basic . I would say (and it is only my perception) from
support is<br>
<br>
<ul>
<li>The number one request in support would have to be a stable
font and size. Users are sick of having these things just (to
them) randomly change.</li>
<li>Having images that display in the received message continue to
display in forwarded messages ( I understand, but the user does
not care the encoding is not up to snuff, it worked once why can
in not continue to work, and forward as attachment is a messy
workaround)<br>
</li>
<li>Being able to specify the font in name and point size, Users
really do not like "Variable Width" and larger and smaller are
just not in their experience.</li>
<li>remove the double dash signature separator<br>
</li>
<li>Easily set a background image</li>
<li>Play sound files so their email will play happy birthday to
the grandkids.<br>
</li>
</ul>
By far the largest market growth we a seeing in my opinion is
outlook express refugees, those 40% of XP users are mostly outlook
express users and they are being referred to Thunderbird as
"something like" outlook express. WE at this point do a fairly poor
job of that transition<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:52FE84A6.4060304@gmail.com" type="cite">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> In its most minimal form imagine you
can define <h1> with a default look (could be based on the
tag or on a class) and you are able to reuse that on any email
you write. The interface just has to be easy to use and enticing
enough so people start using it and panels with preview styles
are the most intuitive way to offer this to the users.<br>
<br>
On 14/02/2014 15:31, John Crisp wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:52FE36D9.4020106@safeandsoundit.co.uk"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On 11/02/14 18:13, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 2014-02-08 4:33 PM, <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:neandr@gmx.de">neandr@gmx.de</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:neandr@gmx.de"><neandr@gmx.de></a>
wrote:
>> Also the composer (current, improved or replaced) has to be integrated
>> very much with the rest of the TB code, /how about using an existing
>> HTML composer and make it work with TB. /
>
> Something like:
>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tinymce.com/">http://www.tinymce.com/</a>
>
Gets my vote (or ckeditor ?) - can't stand the ribbon mess. That's when
I stopped using Office....
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
“Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.” <i>―
Friedrich von Schiller, Die Jungfrau von Orleans </i> </div>
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