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Hi Ben,<br>
<br>
I dealt with some of your comments in my long reply to Mark Banner.
So I'll be brief here.<br>
<br>
One thing I am willing to do is to add specific options to the
proposal for consideration, even if I do not agree with them. So if
you would like to clarify your objections into specific alternatives
for parts of the proposal, we could add them as alternatives.<br>
<br>
Having a visible donation link in Thunderbird 31 is the essence
though, so if you are against that then you are basically against
the proposal, and need to do your own.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/29/2013 9:38 PM, Ben Bucksch
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:529979C4.6000409@beonex.com" type="cite">
<div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed;
font-size: 14px;" lang="x-western">Hey Kent,
<br>
<br>
this proposal doesn't reflect our discussion here at all.
<br>
<br>
1. I think Dave had a very strong point that in-product Donation
requests have a cost, and that we should first exploit the
low-hanging fruit of asking those followers and "fans" that came
actively forward by following the Thunderbird Facebook page and
similar means.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
As I told Mark, I have zero confidence that will succeed in raising
the funds that we need, so I don't think we should delay this
proposal doing a fund-raising experiment that is expected to fail.
Or do you really believe that adding a link on a Facebook page is
going to raise the income that we need? I'm not saying we should
avoid doing that, but it is not what the proposal is about.<br>
<br>
Dave is right that donations have a cost, and the proposal is to
incur that cost.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:529979C4.6000409@beonex.com" type="cite">
<div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed;
font-size: 14px;" lang="x-western">
<br>
2. The idea of steering the feature development by the funds.
We've discussed this at length, but summary is: A donation gives
you a vote for features, but with the clear statement that this
is just expressing a wish and direction and the funds will go
into a general pool. We would still cover needed expenses first
and make that clear.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
It would be great to use this chance for communication with our
users to also get some feedback, with the caveat that this is more
like a survey than a vote. But I feel like that is an implementation
detail that is not critical to the yes/no decisions on the need for
a donation link, and its accompanying governance structure. Perhaps
an optional detailed survey that is given after the donation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:529979C4.6000409@beonex.com" type="cite">
<div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed;
font-size: 14px;" lang="x-western">
<br>
3. After servers, the most important thing that Thunderbird will
need is software developers. Users see a difference when
long-standing issues are fixed and much-needed features like
AB/phone sync are implemented.
<br>
<br>
Contracting for specific things should be an option, but it can
be tricky: compare results from "Summer of Code", which is not
very fruitful, because it's "drop and leave". Somebody needs to
manage them, too - who is that, if there's no staff? Sometimes
it's a good solution, but not the standard solution. I think the
best way to get consistently high quality is to hire some
standing staff. (But they need to be on the right track, see
point 2.)
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
I probably agree with you that there needs to be some long-term
development staff rather then contractors only. But I made it clear
to Mark that the details of this list are not the essence of the
proposal, rather the governance structure as well as a recognition
that the funds can be used for development (which is itself
controversial). So these types of decisions will be made later.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:529979C4.6000409@beonex.com" type="cite">
<div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed;
font-size: 14px;" lang="x-western">
<br>
What Thunderbird needs most is developers that fulfill users'
(!) needs. That seems to be the one thing <b
class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>not<span
class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> in the spending list.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
As I said, the proposal is not intended to give a detailed use of
funds, but rather just possibilities to show that useful ways to
spend income exists. Do you feel that there is doubt that
Thunderbird can profitably use income? If not, then I would rather
focus on the nature of the income and its governance.<br>
<br>
:rkent<br>
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