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<div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed;
font-size: 13px;" lang="x-western">I'm 100% in support of Kent
James' proposals wrt funding & management to the detail (and
I've often perceived rkent very much as a voice of reason in TB).
<br>
<br>
On 18.11.2013 22:49, Kent James wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">(This is a resend
after earlier copies seemed to fail)
<br>
<br>
As many of you know, I am a firm believer that Thunderbird needs
sources
<br>
of income to ensure its future.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
+1
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">2) There are many
ways that we could provide more substantial support to
<br>
core contributors that are short of providing income for living.
That
<br>
would include providing equipment, or travel expenses to
conferences.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
+1. Being one of TB's main bug triagers and allround contributor
since 2007, I am one of these "core contributors that are short of
providing income for living". More specifically, I do not have
formal employment, and the thousands of volunteer working hours I
have invested into TB QA and UX have probably contributed to
persisting that situation. So far I couldn't stop because I love
TB too much and I think it still has great potential if we improve
along the lines of rkent's proposals for funding and management.
However, I have more than once considered abandoning my volunteer
work for TB entirely because I realized I'm effectively doing the
work of a professional but without payment, which is not
sustainable. rkent's proposal has the potential to address that
problem for me and others, to the benefit of TB.
<br>
<br>
I personally could do a lot more and be more effective if there
was funding both for the QA and UX work I do and for others to
actually <b class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>fix<span
class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> those identified bugs and
RFEs that we are currently for the major part just administrating
in our records, much to the permanent frustration of our user base
(think of 11,500 open bugs and RFEs in TB & MailNews Core -
more than bugzilla can display [1] -, of which 7000 in TB [2] and
4500 in MailNews Core [3]). There has been a fatal pattern for
years that user input has been not sufficiently understood,
neglected, even ignored and not consolidated enough in the bug
database and on getsatisfaction. Worse, even if acknowledged and
identified as a problem or potential for improvement, such user
input has often never been acted upon for years, even a decade in
many cases, so we continue getting duplicate reports all the way.
<br>
<br>
From what I've seen in TB QA and UX since 2007, the biggest
frustration is this: It is very clear to me that one of the main
reasons why Thunderbird has struggled for years and somewhat
failed to take off as expected and fly high is a permanent
shortage of funding/manpower from Mozilla even before they
officially defunded the project. How could you possibly handle
11,000 bugs with only around 10 employees? Another main problem,
and obviously linked to insufficient funding/manpower, is TB's
failure to manage and address user input from bugs and RFEs in a
focused, systematic and timely way, which also involves problems
of project management (in line with rkent's analyis). Note how
this interacts in a self-fulfilling prophecy / vicious circle kind
of way: insufficient funding & management -> product
shortcomings -> product loses market share -> less funding
-> and back to square one in the downward spiral.
<br>
<br>
I can only guess how many millions of existing and potential users
TB has lost or not gained as a result of this. Mozilla's claim in
excuse of defunding [0] that TB users are probably mostly happy
with the status quo of the product <i class="moz-txt-slash"><span
class="moz-txt-tag">/</span>as-is<span class="moz-txt-tag">/</span></i>
is one of the biggest myths I've ever heard, given those 11.500
bugs and RFEs on record and user feedback seen on getsatisfaction
and elsewhere (among them, 3000 recorded proposals for enhancement
[6]). The other myth being "on-going security and stability" [0]
(think of 300 Crash bugs [4], 200 dataloss bugs [5] and more
"datalossy" and unconfirmed/unflagged, plus potentially security
bugs which I can't access...).
<br>
<br>
On the other hand, with just a fraction of the manpower and
investment that's going into FF and FF OS, TB could be
significantly better and in a better market position than it is
now. With some funding and better coordination, I still see very
great potential for the improvement of TB.
<br>
So yes, rkent's initiative sounds great and promising.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">3) I believe that
the major Thunderbird contributors should get together
<br>
at least annually for an event that is part work and part play.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
+1
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">4) Certain
important but non-development functions are difficult to
<br>
support with volunteers. There might be a role for contractors
in some
<br>
of those areas, if there was income available.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
+1
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">5) I of course am
not opposed to finding mechanisms for core developers
<br>
to earn a living at their Thunderbird work, should the project
learn to
<br>
develop enough income that such a mechanism was ever possible.
But we
<br>
are far from that now.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
+1
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">Could I have some
comments on this?
<br>
<br>
:rkent
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Kent James, thank you for this initiative.
<br>
<br>
Thomas
<br>
<br>
[0] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/New_Release_and_Governance_Model">https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/New_Release_and_Governance_Model</a>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">We have come to
the conclusion that continued innovation on Thunderbird is not a
priority for Mozilla and that the most critical needs for the
product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it is
quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its
users want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this
field. </blockquote>
"Pretty much what its users want" !? Have a close look:
<br>
<br>
[1] TB & MailNews Core Bugs & RFEs (11500 bugs, capped at
10000 which is bugzilla's list display limit)
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&field0-0-0=product&field0-0-1=product&list_id=8620578&query_format=advanced&type0-0-0=substring&type0-0-1=substring&value0-0-0=Thunderbird&value0-0-1=MailNews&order=bug_id%2Cbug_id&limit=0">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&field0-0-0=product&field0-0-1=product&list_id=8620578&query_format=advanced&type0-0-0=substring&type0-0-1=substring&value0-0-0=Thunderbird&value0-0-1=MailNews&order=bug_id%2Cbug_id&limit=0</a>
<br>
<br>
[2] TB Bugs & RFEs (7000 bugs)
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&field0-0-0=product&list_id=8620601&query_format=advanced&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=Thunderbird&order=bug_id%2Cbug_id&limit=0">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&field0-0-0=product&list_id=8620601&query_format=advanced&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=Thunderbird&order=bug_id%2Cbug_id&limit=0</a>
<br>
<br>
[3] MailNews Core Bugs & RFEs (4500 bugs)
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&field0-0-0=product&list_id=8620675&query_format=advanced&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=MailNews&order=bug_id%2Cbug_id&limit=0">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&field0-0-0=product&list_id=8620675&query_format=advanced&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=MailNews&order=bug_id%2Cbug_id&limit=0</a>
<br>
<br>
[4] TB & MailNews Core Crash bugs (300 bugs)
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=product%3A%22MailNews%20Core%22%2CThunderbird%20keyword%3Acrash&list_id=8620965">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=product%3A%22MailNews%20Core%22%2CThunderbird%20keyword%3Acrash&list_id=8620965</a>
<br>
<br>
[5] TB & MailNews Core dataloss bugs (200 bugs)
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=product%3AThunderbird%20keyword%3Adataloss&list_id=8620503">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=product%3AThunderbird%20keyword%3Adataloss&list_id=8620503</a>
<br>
<br>
[6] TB & MailNews Core RFEs (3000 proposed enhancements)
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&field0-0-0=product&field0-0-1=product&field1-0-0=bug_severity&list_id=8620865&query_format=advanced&type0-0-0=substring&type0-0-1=substring&type1-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=MailNews%20Core&value0-0-1=Thunderbird&value1-0-0=enhancement&order=bug_id&limit=0">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&field0-0-0=product&field0-0-1=product&field1-0-0=bug_severity&list_id=8620865&query_format=advanced&type0-0-0=substring&type0-0-1=substring&type1-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=MailNews%20Core&value0-0-1=Thunderbird&value1-0-0=enhancement&order=bug_id&limit=0</a>
<br>
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