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<div id="smartTemplate4-template">Hello Yango,
<br>
<br>
first and foremost, that is indeed a Thunderbird bug, and to be
honest, a little out of scope for me and my humble Addons but if
you want to help, here is my feedback on this - a quick search on
bugzilla (product=thunderbird, search string=complex filters)
reveals this <b><i>one</i></b> bug only:<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=846367">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=846367</a><br>
<br>
It would be great if you could contribute some of your ideas on
this topic there.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Thus, a combination of rules would be
necessary: <br>
A. If sender is <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:myfriend@mail.com">"myfriend@mail.com"</a>
AND subject contains "Viagra" then move message to
"Medical|Viagra"<br>
This is working, yes. But my reply needs an own filter, and I
have to define it in a separate action:<br>
B. If recipient is <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:myfriend@mail.com">"myfriend@mail.com"</a>
AND subject contains "Viagra" then move message to
"Medical|Viagra".<br>
<br>
This could be overcome by more complex filters:<br>
C. If sender OR recipient is <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:myfriend@mail.com">"myfriend@mail.com"</a>
AND subject contains "Viagra" then move message to
"Medical|Viagra".<br>
I guess this is a problem of thunderbird itself and not of your
addon.<br>
However, your addon could help by automatically defining a pair
of filters: A and B.</blockquote>
now the interesting bit: AFAIK Thunderbird's actual <i>filter
engine </i>already supports such constructs. <br>
<br>
The main problem is to build a usable UI, and by usable I mean
something that is readily understood by users who usually work
with boolean logic. <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Of course, Version C would be better, and
if C is installedd an addon offering the workaround is nonsense.
On the other hand the filter fuctionality of thunderbird wasn't
changed for years, so they seem to rate it not very important
(however, it would help me tremendeously).</blockquote>
<br>
Well sadly, it's not just Filters but, as you may have heard,
innovation as whole in Thunderbird must now be provided by the
community; there is a list of prioritized bugs (papercuts) which
tries to outline what should be fixed until the next major
release.<br>
<br>
The workaround with FiltqQuilla is an interesting one (by "simply"
creating new more complex filter conditions which then can be
either ORed or ANDed together) but ultimately it is still a
workaround that doesn't lend itself to cover 100% of the cases (as
a UI that supports combinations of OR + AND would). Also what we
need to think of is that fact that normal users not aware of
operator precedence (AND binds before OR) and one would have to
also somehow include creation of Parentheses, in order to support
both conditions like:<br>
<br>
<pre>i) If A or (B and C) => Action Z
</pre>
<pre>
ii) If (A or B) and C => Action Z
</pre>
<br>
Just of the cuff, maybe one way to solve this would be by nesting
other filters as subconditions. These other filters would not
necessarily have an action.<br>
<br>
<br>
One way to achieve this with the current filters would be like
this:<br>
<br>
<pre>i) If A or (B and C) => Action Z
if B and C tag mail as XXX
if A or mail tagged as XXX => Action Z, and remove XXX tag
</pre>
<pre>
</pre>
<pre>ii) If (A or B) and C => Action Z
if A or B tag mail as XXX
if C and mail tagged as XXX => Action Z
</pre>
Of course in both cases you would have to remove the XXX tags
again after all work is done.<br>
<br>
In terms of UI, this "Nesting" of Filters, could offer something
like this:<br>
<br>
<img src="cid:part4.02020303.02030601@googlemail.com" alt=""><br>
<br>
(Selectiong of another Filter might be optional for a first
implementation). The important thing here is that clicking on the
"Edit nested Conditions" button (after selecting "Nested Filter"
"applies to Mail") you would essentially just use the same,
familiar interface for building these nested conditions and there
you could freely decide whether to choose the AND or the OR
operator to chain these conditions together. In our example:<br>
<br>
<pre>ii) If (A or B) and C => Action Z
A = Sender is Malachi (who just does Reviews)
B = Body contains Review
C = Subject Contains QuickPasswords
If (Sender is Malachi OR Body contains Review) AND Subject Contains QuickPasswords
</pre>
In the above screenshot you would now create the condition (Sender
is Malachi OR Body contains Review) by clicking on the Edit
button, and you would also probably have to give it a meaningful
name in order to have it appear as a label, such as<br>
<br>
"Is Review Related"<br>
<br>
<br>
if A or B tag mail as XXX<br>
if C and mail tagged as XXX => Action Z
<br>
<br>
<img src="cid:part5.00050700.09000500@googlemail.com" alt=""><br>
<br>
As regards UI building, this is relatively light weight, and it
also doesn't really require for the user to learn any new skills
(other than knowing of the concept of nesting)<br>
<br>
What do you think? I am also cc-ing the Tb-Planning list and the
author of FiltaQuilla, just to get some feedback on this<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Both present a solution, but for the
normal user and/or multiple mail accounts to be set: I could
imagine that such a functionality is very badly needed and could
give quickfilters a boost...<br>
BTW: think about copying filter rules from one account to
another?<br>
</blockquote>
Definitely and totally next on my agenda for my quickFilters
agenda - please raise a bug on quickFilters!<br>
<br>
As I have just <a
href="https://www.mozdev.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=25199">tackled
the problem of Filter merging</a> this is the next logical step.
In my latest beta, have created an interface to Merge filters
together, here is the screen flow:<br>
<br>
1. select multiple filters click merge button<br>
<img src="cid:part7.05090804.07060502@googlemail.com" alt=""><br>
<br>
2. [Optional] Remove filters that do not match the same action
(e.g. move to folder XYZ)<br>
<img src="cid:part8.09010401.01040106@googlemail.com" alt=""><br>
<br>
3. Edit the merged filter<br>
<img src="cid:part9.03080401.03090102@googlemail.com" alt=""> <br>
<br>
4. On clicking [OK], merged filters are removed and the list
refreshes with consolidated result(s)<br>
<br>
<img src="cid:part10.01010204.02070803@googlemail.com" alt=""><br>
<br>
This functionality is a missing piece in the much needed Cut /
Copy / Paste functionality, and when copying filters across
accounts there should be a detection of other filters that do the
same thing already and merge should be offered, as now does
quickFilters when you (drop or create from mail):<br>
<br>
<img src="cid:part11.01000101.01060307@googlemail.com" alt=""><br>
<br>
So please go ahead raise that (copy/cut/paste) bug on quickFilters
and I will happily start working on this after the next release
with the Merge.<br>
<br>
Apologies to Tb-Planning for so much Addon related stuff but I
think it is an interesting question and the possible UI solutions
complex filter creation is something that is worth while
discussing here. <br>
<br>
If there is interest I volunteer on creating a prototype in form
of an Addon first.<br>
<br>
<br>
kind regards,<br>
Axel<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div id="smartTemplate4-quoteHeader">
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<div id="newHeader"> <b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:axel.grude@googlemail.com">Axel</a><br>
<b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:yango.pohl@zahnunfall.de">Yango
Pohl</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Sunday, 03/03/2013 07:06:37 07:06 GMT Standard
Time {GMT ST} +0000 [Week 10]<br>
<b>Subject:</b>Re: [QuickFolders] [Bug 25356] More complex
filters </div>
</div>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_5132F67D_3020002_zahnunfall_de"
cite="mid:5132F67D.3020002@zahnunfall.de" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-15"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Axel,<br>
I'm not quite sure if I understood everything right, so I just
mail to not openn an unneccessary ticket.<br>
First, sorry for submitting in quickfolders instead of
quickfilters. For me they belong to each other, so I did not
realize that there are different feature requests...<br>
Then, I realize, that it is mainly not a question to you and
your add-on, but instead to the thunderbird core group.<br>
However, you could help with a workaround, if they won't change
the filter functionality (which is obviously the case).<br>
<br>
Scenario: <br>
Several to many persons to whom there are many mail contacts,
with different subjects. <br>
Several to many similar subjects but not restriced to these mail
contacts.<br>
<br>
Thus, a combination of rules would be necessary: <br>
A. If sender is <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:myfriend@mail.com">"myfriend@mail.com"</a>
AND subject contains "Viagra" then move message to
"Medical|Viagra"<br>
This is working, yes. But my reply needs an own filter, and I
have to define it in a separate action:<br>
B. If recipient is <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:myfriend@mail.com">"myfriend@mail.com"</a>
AND subject contains "Viagra" then move message to
"Medical|Viagra".<br>
<br>
This could be overcome by more complex filters:<br>
C. If sender OR recipient is <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:myfriend@mail.com">"myfriend@mail.com"</a>
AND subject contains "Viagra" then move message to
"Medical|Viagra".<br>
I guess this is a problem of thunderbird itself and not of your
addon.<br>
However, your addon could help by automatically defining a pair
of filters: A and B.<br>
<br>
Of course, Version C would be better, and if C is installedd an
addon offering the workaround is nonsense. On the other hand the
filter fuctionality of thunderbird wasn't changed for years, so
they seem to rate it not very important (however, it would help
me tremendeously).<br>
<br>
So, I don't know what to do. Open a ticket for basic filter
change at thb and wait for a reply? This obviously had been done
without success / there are uncountable search results in google
for "thunderbird filters complex"... Or shall I open a ticket
for your addon? Seems to be the way with a better prognosis?!<br>
Maybe you as a programmer are a little bit closer to the core
group and could better get information about future
developments, and whether such a workaround would make sense? <br>
<br>
interesting links:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://superuser.com/questions/51148/how-to-combine-filter-rules-in-message-filters-in-thunderbird-to-create-more-adv">http://superuser.com/questions/51148/how-to-combine-filter-rules-in-message-filters-in-thunderbird-to-create-more-adv</a><br>
and<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://superuser.com/questions/452246/how-do-i-create-an-email-filter-with-complex-logic">http://superuser.com/questions/452246/how-do-i-create-an-email-filter-with-complex-logic</a><br>
<br>
Both present a solution, but for the normal user and/or multiple
mail accounts to be set: I could imagine that such a
functionality is very badly needed and could give quickfilters a
boost...<br>
BTW: think about copying filter rules from one account to
another?<br>
<br>
Kind regards<br>
Yango<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature"> <br>
<span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial" lang="DE"> </span>
<br>
</div>
Am 02.03.2013 21:57, schrieb <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:bugzilla-daemon@mozdev.mozdev.org">bugzilla-daemon@mozdev.mozdev.org</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=" cite"
id="mid_20130302205743_D35FD8447A_mozdev_mozdev_org"
cite="mid:20130302205743.D35FD8447A@mozdev.mozdev.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.mozdev.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=25356">https://www.mozdev.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=25356</a>
Axel Grude <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:axel.grude@gmail.com"><axel.grude@gmail.com></a> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status|NEW |RESOLVED
Resolution| |WONTFIX
--- Comment #1 from Axel Grude <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:axel.grude@gmail.com"><axel.grude@gmail.com></a> 2013-03-02 12:57:42 ---
Well we cannot just make "more complex filters" as a template (which is
supposed to be used more than once for creating different filters, you have to
be more concrete than this. Second you can always add additional conditions, so
without a concrete example it is a little doubtful whether a template would
really help here? Third, I would really prefer if you could file these bugs
under the quickFilters addon as this is more specifically written for filter
management and it is more likely that I will add these features there rather
than bloating QuickFolders with it.
QuickFolders is of course fully compatible with quickFilters and triggers the
quickFilters methods directly once you drop a mail to a QuickFolders tab or
folder menu item.
I will mark this as WONTFIX but encourage you to re-raise this (and maybe give
a more concrete example) on the quickFilters addon:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://quickfilters.mozdev.org/bugs.html">http://quickfilters.mozdev.org/bugs.html</a>
Note there is already quite a bit of innovation happening there currently -
there is merging and re-using filters, and I am also planning on cut / copy /
paste functions in the near future.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
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