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On 11/12/2012 2:35 AM, Gervase Markham wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:50A0D0D8.2000607@mozilla.org" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">For
Thunderbird to even attempt this
<br>
direction would have significant risk and controversy, and
that is
<br>
exactly the last thing that Mozilla wants for Thunderbird
right now.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think it's a political reality that they will need to be
<br>
organizationally independent of Mozilla-the-organization.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'm so glad to hear you say that. It's been difficult to talk
about
<br>
possible alternate governance of a future Mozilla-based
communications
<br>
client without being viewed as anti-Mozilla, or trying some sort
of coup.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I don't want to be misunderstood; I was saying that if an
organization wants to go out and <b class="moz-txt-star"><span
class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>raise funds for employing people<span
class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> to develop the codebase, I
think it would need to be not-Mozilla. But then I point out that
Postbox tried something like this, and don't seem to have done all
that well. So I wonder whether it would work.
<br>
<br>
However, I'm not saying that I'm in favour of moving Thunderbird
the product and brand out from the Mozilla umbrella.
</blockquote>
Note that I used the phrase "future Mozilla-based communications
client" and not "Thunderbird".<br>
<br>
I've pretty much accepted that Mozilla for the foreseeable future is
not going to participate in any activity where Mozilla is managing
activities to pay for future innovation in a communications client
based on the Thunderbird code.<br>
<br>
If that is the practical reality, then the best thing that you could
do would be to continue to confirm that position. The worst thing
that Mozilla could do would be to encourage continued discussion
under the "Mozilla umbrella" about the issue, thus sucking strength
away from the not-Mozilla entity without really providing a valid
outlet for real discussions that have a chance of changing
something. (This is not an accusation that you have done such a
thing, only an encouragement to be clear about what Mozilla is *not*
going to do, so that others would have the freedom to do it.)<br>
<br>
So when Vincent writes "about monetization, just wanted to highlight
the fact that, in my opinion, there is still a lot to do" you would
say "fine, but that is out of scope for Mozilla, please discuss this
with the not-Mozilla entity".<br>
<br>
Unless I hear a strong statement otherwise, I am going to consider
Standard8's "Therefore, paid-for development should not be
considered" and your "efforts surrounding Thunderbird which generate
income ... will need to be organizationally independent of
Mozilla-the-organization
" as definitive. We need a not-Mozilla organization.<br>
<br>
:rkent<br>
<br>
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