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<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_5053F725_9000907_gmail_com"
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/09/2012 4:22 AM, Kent James
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_50537CD6_5030003_caspia_com"
cite="mid:50537CD6.5030003@caspia.com" type="cite">
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On 9/14/2012 11:23 AM, Patrick Cloke wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=" cite"
id="mid_CAC4yyp_C969BWvDRP3WFrpox1PLYDT55c_ud1_hwyZVg8xsLkQ_mail_gmail_com"
cite="mid:CAC4yyp=C969BWvDRP3WFrpox1PLYDT55c=ud1+hwyZVg8xsLkQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> </div>
I also wonder if some options don't necessary need UI and <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="about:config">"about:config"</a> is a good enough UI
for them. <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
That is good for really rare choices, or cases where a minority
disagrees with a decision (New versus Unread counts in the Mac
summary is a good example of that). But some key players hate
them on principle.<br>
</blockquote>
About config options are almost always buried in the comments of
the bug. They are not documented, until now support have had a
policy of not documenting them in how to articles unless they
must. There are literally thousands of settings in <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="About:config">About:config</a>, If we are to start the
process of deliberately placing advanced settings in <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="about:config">about:config</a> for the user to edit then
it is time to ante up and document the ones that are already
there.<br>
</blockquote>
You are giving me an idea for a new extension that makes access to
them easier and documents them. I have a standard mechanism of
exposing selected debug options by opening <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="about:config">about:config</a> with a
readonly filter (which is a very primitive and lazy way of making
them accessible without building a new UI).<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_5053F725_9000907_gmail_com"
cite="mid:5053F725.9000907@gmail.com" type="cite">
<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_50537CD6_5030003_caspia_com"
cite="mid:50537CD6.5030003@caspia.com" type="cite">
<blockquote class=" cite"
id="mid_CAC4yyp_C969BWvDRP3WFrpox1PLYDT55c_ud1_hwyZVg8xsLkQ_mail_gmail_com"
cite="mid:CAC4yyp=C969BWvDRP3WFrpox1PLYDT55c=ud1+hwyZVg8xsLkQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> I don't think it makes sense to talk about this in
overall terms. I think it would be more useful to take a
look at each feature individually and see whether it can
be simplified / removed / etc.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
A specific strategy of being more deliberate about pushing
advanced features to addons is an overall issue, and the main
point of this thread. Certainly we should strive whenever
possible to keep user interfaces simple.<br>
</blockquote>
I don't think it is advanced features that is the problem, it is
UI design. </blockquote>
+ 1,000 !<br>
<br>
there is a lot of functionality in Tb already which is hard to
access or understand from a UI stand point.<br>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_5053F725_9000907_gmail_com"
cite="mid:5053F725.9000907@gmail.com" type="cite">When I am
editing my account setup, there is no button to click to open
passwords or outgoing servers for that account. </blockquote>
QuickPasswords actually does that for you - click an account in the
folder pane and then the QuickPasswords button - it always tries to
guess the context of what password you are looking for. but it would
be trivial to add a button to the Server Settings page beside the
user name field; and also the logical place rather than expecting
the user to know that his function is compartmentalized into the
Password Manager (one of the most hidden features of the Mozilla
application universe).<br>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_5053F725_9000907_gmail_com"
cite="mid:5053F725.9000907@gmail.com" type="cite">It is this sort
of creaky decades old design that is the issue. <br>
Over in support land users are asking <br>
* how to change a password (Microsoft have passwords, most users
are x Microsoft software). We hide this stuff so well that some
are not even aware they have a password until it stops working.<br>
</blockquote>
QuickPasswords :-P <br>
<br>
It is funny I often get support mail that assumes I have written the
whole Password Manager because people are not aware that it is built
in and can be reached via Edit/Settings or Tools/Options. Managing
Passwords is clearly an important piece of functionality, IMO it
would deserve to be promoted to a main menu item. (Tools or Edit
Menu)<br>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_5053F725_9000907_gmail_com"
cite="mid:5053F725.9000907@gmail.com" type="cite"> * They want
to know how to "export" their mail to move to their new device.
This is an area that needs action. We have a full bodied data
intensive application sitting on a machine that is these days
often replaced in 12 to 24 months, that is if it does not simply
let out the magic smoke in 6 months. We have no migration path.
Or backup strategy. I know. backup is a machine thing. Not any
more. Everyone copies their important stuff to USB.<br>
</blockquote>
+1 - my suggestion would be to <b>create </b><b>an extension for
this first</b> (I don't agree an external utility like MozBackup
is the best / correct way to approach this; it is just too techie to
set up). then after doing UAT with the users continue to migrate
into core.<br>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_5053F725_9000907_gmail_com"
cite="mid:5053F725.9000907@gmail.com" type="cite"> * Where have
their menu and toolbars gone (How can I send a mail my send button
and it's whole bar is missing?)<br>
</blockquote>
Isn't the toolbar still shown as part of the vanilla setup? And the
user get's a choice of whether to integrate this into the mail
header pane instead?<br>
<br>
Sorry, I haven't looked at nightly lately.<br>
<blockquote class=" cite" id="mid_5053F725_9000907_gmail_com"
cite="mid:5053F725.9000907@gmail.com" type="cite"> * My account
does not work and it has a padlock on it! It would be funny,
except for some providers our penchant for NOT using the account
settings recommended by the providers does mean that padlock is
indeed the reason their mail is not working.<br>
*And they still don't get Tabs (Yesterdays description was a
line of email addresses across the top of the page)<br>
<br>
None of those things are advanced features, but they are UI
issues. If the users just don't get it that our design is at
fault.<br>
</blockquote>
Yes.<br>
Axel<br>
<br>
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<b class="myName" style="text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px
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Software Developer
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Thunderbird Add-ons Developer
<span style="color:#666666; font-size:xx-small">(QuickFolders,
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