<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<link href="chrome://translator/skin/floatingPanel.css"
type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
On 31/05/2011 9:31 AM, Roland MoCo Tanglao wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4DE42FF0.6040903@mozilla.com" type="cite">For
what it's worth:
<br>
Normal Thunderbird users who are non technical are totally
confused by the difference in version numbers between Thunderbird
and Firefox AND often can't tell whether they are running
Thunderbird or Firefox.
<br>
<br>
Therefore from a support point of view, aligning thunderbird and
firefox version numbers and releases is a good thing because it
will lead to less user confusion.
<br>
</blockquote>
Having that confusion clearly demonstrates something. Pitch you
answer to a very slow 4 year old.<br>
<br>
This issue with sky rocketing version numbers will significantly
increase the 'another new version and this bug is not fixed' level
of dissatisfaction. Users expect change with a new version, even
security and bug fix releases. They might not be all that switched
on to exactly which version they have, but they do notice when they
get one and expectations are high that their personal problem will
have been addressed.<br>
<br>
The one thing about this that I have not seen discussed anywhere is
what it will do to addon comparability checking. <br>
Will add on developers also need to release a new version every 6
weeks?<br>
Will they simply start placing compatibility entries showing 3 to
99?<br>
Will add on developers even bother?<br>
<br>
Matt<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:4DE42FF0.6040903@mozilla.com" type="cite">
<br>
...Roland
<br>
<br>
On 11-05-30 3:09 PM, Thomas Düllmann wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">First of all, thanks to Wayne for pointing
me to this interesting and informative communication channel,
and hi to everyone known and unknown.
<br>
<br>
It's unfortunate I'm starting out here with a critical post,
furthermore it's somewhat emotional (blame it on the late time
of the day, and reduce the severity of the message accordingly
after reading), but anyway, here's my comment on the version
number changes planned for TB:
<br>
<br>
<br>
My whole-hearted agreement on Karsten's scepticism against the
new versioning intentions.
<br>
<br>
Thunderbird is not known for moving very fast in its
development, and where it has moved fast (as in the case of the
new global search, or maybe the quick filter bar), it has left a
desert of UI problems and desiderata that are unsolved to this
day. My suspicion is that the merging of MozMessaging with
MozLabs with the intention of developing new phantastic products
to cover the full range of today's communication channels will
not exactly improve the manpower situation for core Thunderbird
without bells and whistles, on the contrary. The language in
that announcement seems way too defensive to be fully trusted...
<br>
Fast development trains will only help if there is sufficient
manpower to actually develop, instead of a dependence on
God-sent volunteer contributors like Jim who is currently
restoring big chunks of one largely neglected and deteriorated
core functionality of TB: attachments UI. While other
deteriorated corners will continue to languish, although
concepts and suggestions are mostly out on the table.
<br>
<br>
What I am trying to say is that exploding version numbers that
do not reflect actual feature changes that are relevant to the
user (which Gecko versions are not) will add insult to injury
from a normal users perspective:
<br>
While version numbers will be rocketing skywards under the new
scheme (starting with that leap from 3.x to 5), there will be
nothing tangible in terms of bugfixing and UI-improvement /
added features that will actually justify those leaps from the
traditional user's viewpoint where version number changes
reflect visible improvments. It is a myth that version numbers
could be de-emphasised, as many of our users are very aware of
version numbers: from painful experience widely documented in
the forums like getsatisfaction, bugzilla etc., they have come
to associate version number changes in Thunderbird with more
complications of workflow, continuous erosion of screen real
estate, and other dangers which overshadow some of the
significant improvements that co-occured.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">we felt that matching Firefox would make
it clearer
<br>
for developers as to which version of Thunderbird was based on
which
<br>
gecko/Firefox version.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
That main reason for changing the versioning system starts out
all wrong because it focuses on the small no. of developers
rather than the large userbase. Furthermore, I suppose people
that are actually capable of developing Thunderbird will also be
able to find out Tb's gecko version even if it's not in the
title of the product. If I am not mistaken, finding out the
version number used to be as simple as going to help > about.
Why do I care that much? Maybe because it's another one of those
changes in Thunderbird that the world does not need, and that
may turn out to cause more harm than good to an already
endangered product. Imagine Thunderbird 10 and we may still not
be able to search all of our address books in one go - wouldn't
that be weird?
<br>
<br>
I'm not always as pessimistic, most of the time I just find lots
of bugs and suggest improvements, and than patiently wait for
some years till someone picks up on it (or even acknowledges the
problem, as in so many unbelievable keyboard/focus issues). A
good indicator of such hopeful occasions used to be an increase
in the version numbers of the product. With the new suggested
versioning system, the version numbers would become largely
meaningless to that regard. Yes, version numbers do matter and
they should not be abused for technical reasons that are
irrelevant for the larger parts of the userbase, or for a false
understanding of marketing that bloats version numbers without
improving the product at the same pace.
<br>
<br>
Otherwise, with respect to matching FF's version no: So far I
naively assumed that the difference in version numbers between
FF and Thunderbird actually had some truth value with respect to
development (due to differences in manpower, resources, you name
it). It may not be wise to cover up that truth by pretending to
be what we are not.
<br>
<br>
Best wishes and greetings,
<br>
<br>
Thomas
<br>
<br>
On 27.05.2011 00:06, Karsten Düsterloh wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Mark Banner aber hob zu reden an und
schrieb:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Whilst we could have kept the same
numbering system, or adopted a
<br>
different one, we felt that matching Firefox would make it
clearer
<br>
for developers as to which version of Thunderbird was based
on which
<br>
gecko/Firefox version.
<br>
</blockquote>
I outright doubt that this is solving any real-world problem.
<br>
<br>
Chrome-angst-driven version number frenzy might make (very
limited, IMO)
<br>
sense for a competing browser, but do users really care about
the Gecko
<br>
version of their _mail_ client?
<br>
<br>
I do understand, though, the assumed marketing "value" of
pairing the
<br>
version number with FF. I just think it's nonsense. ;-)
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">We'll also be de-emphasising the
version numbers in our releases,
<br>
</blockquote>
Well, you may do, but will the users? ;-)
<br>
<br>
<br>
Karsten
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
tb-planning mailing list
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tb-planning@mozilla.org">tb-planning@mozilla.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning">https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning</a>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
tb-planning mailing list
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tb-planning@mozilla.org">tb-planning@mozilla.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning">https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
tb-planning mailing list
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tb-planning@mozilla.org">tb-planning@mozilla.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning">https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning</a>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Benjamin Franklin</pre>
<div style="display: none; bottom: auto; left: 253px; right: auto;
top: 321px;" class="translator-theme-default"
id="translator-floating-panel">
<div title="Click to translate"
id="translator-floating-panel-button"></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>