UI mock-up - Account Setup Rev.3

Tanstaafl tanstaafl at libertytrek.org
Sat May 11 21:00:49 UTC 2019

On Fri May 10 2019 19:50:45 GMT-0400 (Eastern Standard Time), Ben
Bucksch <ben.bucksch at beonex.com> wrote:
> In the manual configuration mode of the dialog, there needs to be the
> "Advanced Config" button. I know it's odd, but it's needed for really
> fringe edge cases.

Agreed. But...

Currently, if I go to create a new account, and click the 'Manual
Config' button, the 'Advanced' button is greyed. So it is useless as it
is now.

> The manual configuration is not for end advanced end users. It's for 
> those users where we failed to find a working configuration 
> automatically, but these are still normal non-techy users.
Some, yes, some no... but to say they all are is just not something you
can do with any degree of certainty.

> They will need to gather the server name from some configuration page
> of their company somewhere. And we help them making this>
>   * as comfortable as possible (by prefilling the correct ports,
>     authentication method etc.)
>   * helping them getting it right (by validating the input and checking
>     that it works), and
>   * making it as secure as possible (by using SSL when possible, and
>     making it easy to enable and test whether SSL works).

No one, especially me, is arguing against making the automated account
creation process as smooth as possible, so I don't think you'll find
anyone arguing against that.

> The "Advanced Config" button is needed for really fringe edge cases,
> like obscure required options, rare cases where our validation fails due
> to a strange mail server, and people wanting to set up the account while
> being offline. It doesn't make much sense, but there have been multiple
> very angry requests for that.

See, Ben, this attitude really bothers me. You just casually pronounce
that it doesn't make much sense - but it makes perfect sense for the
people who want it. And your casual refusal to acknowledge this flies
directly in the face of something you yourself just said - 'there have
been multiple very angry requests for this', and I imagine you do
understand that for every angry request that makes it into bugzilla or
one of the forums, there are likely dozens, hundreds, maybe even
thousands of additional users who feel the same way.

> This one button is the escape route for all those edge cases.

Well, it doesn't work right now, and I'm arguing that we don't need an
escape route at all. All we need is a simple way to guide people in
setting up an account via the wizard, but in addition, make it easy for
those people who want to do it their way.

Having a simple way, in the Account Creation Wizard itself, to toggle
between Simple and Advanced modes, gives us precisely that and more. The
Account isn't actually created until the 'Done' button is clicked, and
the user can toggle between the two modes as much as desired.

> If we do not have this escape route, these people will demand options
> for their specific case all over the place, and each will have a good
> legitimate (even though rare) reason for why they need it, and we'll
> have to discuss how to accommodate them, one by one.
Or, we could just have the ability to toggle between the two modes, best
of both worlds, all in the wizard,

> If we were to remove "Advanced Config", we would have endless
> discussions how to fulfill all the different odd needs, and
> consequently destroy the normal path.
I'm not sure how you seem to be equating providing a simple way to
toggle between Advanced and Basic config modes, as 'removing Advanced
Config'. It is still there, but actually fully usable.

> That would make nobody really happy, and waste time in discussions
> (you have no idea how much time). By allowing this simple escape
> route for advanced users, where we make absolutely no checks, and the
> user can just mis-configure whatever he wants, we make the power 
> users and IT admins happy, without compromising the normal path for 
> normal end users.
Exactly. Now all you have to do is explain why you seem to think that
your way is the only, or even the best, way, and the way i am proposing
won't only fulfill the goal, but does it in a much more user friendly
way - for both regular and advanced end users.

> I hope you see the idea behind the current dialog: Make as much
> automatic as possible. Allow override where it fails. Do show things
> that we absolutely need to get a working configuration, and help as much
> as possible. Do not show things that are not normally needed for most
> users, but allow this to be available for those who do need it.

Again - this is exactly what I'm proposing.

I'm unclear why you are arguing against what I'm proposing, much less
why you are arguing so strongly.

>> Also, what's so drastically important inside the /Account Settins >
>> Server Settings/ that it's not available inside the /manual config/?

> There are tons of little settings that we definitely do *not* want in
> the normal setup flow.

On this we agree. The Account Settings > Server Settings should stay as it.

> Right, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. The "Advanced Config" button
> effectively does that.

But the way you are describing, it goes ahead and creates the account
and drops you into the Account Settings dialog.

The way I'm suggesting doesn't do that until the user is actually finished.

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