Home Page Lo-Fi Wireframes v2

Wayne Mery vseerror at lehigh.edu
Tue Mar 19 18:56:21 UTC 2019

On 3/19/2019 8:19 AM, Matt Harris wrote:
> On 19-Mar-19 10:09 PM, neandr wrote:
>> Some comments about Matt's notes ... see inline ..
>> Günter
>> Am 19.03.19 um 11:54 schrieb Matt Harris:
>>> <...>
>>> I would still like to see add-ons removed from the top menu and 
>>> replaced with a general info block pointing the use to the add-on 
>>> manager, which I am seeing as another page link lower in the wire frame.
>>> Can we also get away from the grey on grey and black on grey which 
>>> are so difficult to read.  They look pretty,  but unless your 
>>> monitor and graphic is really u to snuff they are not a good choice 
>>> to actually read.
>> Addons are an essential part of the TB offering and the user should 
>> have a short path to get to. So the [Add-Ons] button at the first 
>> line is OK.
> Yes they are integral,  we also want to have your users downloading 
> and installing from within the add-on manager.  This is not Firefox, 
> going to ATN in a browser is not the short way to install a working 
> valid for your version of Thunderbird add-on.  So would it be ok of 
> ATN simply removed the download buttons for addons when viewed in a 
> browser? I would not like to go that far.  But I am tired of the 
> regular post of I downloaded the XPI file but I double click it and 
> nothing happens, or it refuses to install.  Until we fix the ATN site 
> and the add-on manager I think we are honour bound to NOT make it more 
> complicated for the average user.  an Add-ons menu item does that.  
> You clearly disagree,  so we will have to agree to disagree and others 
> can make the decision for us based on our comments to this subject.  
> Perhaps we need more localization to the operating system so double 
> clicking an XPI file does do something on Windows.  But I am talking 
> about what is best for the web site.  I have no control over what 
> developers think is important with Thunderbird.
>>> We need to finally remove the lightning download from the web site.  
>>> Some Linux maintainers do not bundle it,  but that is not our 
>>> problem.  WE do bundle it for all operating systems.  For Linux 
>>> users that have issues with their distributions copies should be 
>>> addressing their issues to the maintainers,  not having Thunderbird 
>>> take the retrograde step to go back in time to when their 
>>> maintainers are living.  Sorry Linux folks,  but that is one of the 
>>> reasons Linux is still niche.  Maintainers and other individuals is 
>>> positions of power make appalling decisions and everyone just works 
>>> around them.  The download link needs to be removed and we should be 
>>> encouraging folk to click yes on the first run install. Instead of 
>>> catering to a small group of loud minority product users by offering 
>>> a totally useless download link  that will start an install process 
>>> in the hardest possible way that is to install a product that more 
>>> than 90% of users get with their install.   Many users just have 
>>> that install pane on the bottom of the windows basically for ever,  
>>> they often appear in screen shots in support topics.  They really 
>>> have no idea what it is and ignore it as it does not prevent mail 
>>> activities.
>>> Given the explosion of support request for folk already on the beta 
>>> channel about their "functions" that have been removed by uncaring 
>>> developers,  I think it is probably going to be a long haul until 
>>> the add-on environment supports the top 20 or 30% of add-ons.  WE 
>>> need to warn folk that those cuttong edges do in fact have blood on 
>>> them and it is not always plain sailing.  If it was it would be a 
>>> release version.
>> Also I don't fully understand your concerns here, what is the problem 
>> to inform the vistor of the page to get some hints about Lightning?
>> Leave the section.
> Give all the hints you like.  Just don't offer a download link that is 
> useful for less that 10% of site visitors.  Confusing and counter 
> productive for the other 90+%.  If your distribution is not building 
> and packaging Lightning with their repo,  that is something that your 
> distribution must fix.  But modifying the web site because your 
> maintainer is not living in the same world as the rest of us and 
> failing to deliver functional software as intended is not really an 
> option.  For instance Lightning is available in the ubuntu 
> repository,  more convenient for most users that get software from 
> that repository. But that is not an issue for Thunderbird.  it is an 
> issue for the relevant distribution.
>>> I also think that if we have a prominent option for a page Language 
>>> that will actually change the locale,  then the other discussion 
>>> about systems and languages becomes moot. Change the display 
>>> language to Macedonian and you get a Macedonian download offered.  
>>> From my scrolling up and down and left and right,  it look to be 
>>> currently way to the bottom and out of view on page load.  It needs 
>>> to be up the top where it can be found as soon as the page loads in 
>>> the wrong language.  A good place might be the space left by the 
>>> add-ons link in the menu.
>>> This is as I understand is something of an issue for a lot of 
>>> British expats in Spain.  They want British English Thunderbird but 
>>> get Spanish, so there are multiple use cases where another language 
>>> might be required.
>> A real good point.
>> Selection for the page and for the download should separated. That is 
>> choosing the page language (manually or because of the OS or so) 
>> should not hard set the downloaded language version.
> I think the download button should offer the language of the page and 
> only that as well as the operating system from the browser string.  
> Inconvenience is one of the side effects of munging browser strings. 
> Convenience is one of the benefits of leaving it honest.   Clicking 
> download should most certainly not open pandora's box of languages and 
> operating systems.  There is an X in the corner of the page that will 
> be the common response to that.
> The base web site really must be designed for a poorly trained monkey 
> if it is to be successful.  With the language skills of a 8-10 years 
> old child.  This is not being derogatory,  it was in my training 30 
> years ago for writing government copy, and correspondence.  Other 
> languages as Wayne suggested should be in the "other languages" page.  
> But instead of a little "link" under the download button to the other 
> languages page make it one of those blocks like are used for 
> lightning...  "want to see what other community languages Thunderbird 
> is available in.  Want to download it for another operating system and 
> perhaps a bit of a we need help in localisation.
> Matt

It seems like the decision about the addons user experience should be 
based on the best interest of the average user.

Which ultimately means, I think, that this decision should be in the 
capable hands of our new UX person - informed by user and community 
feedback of course.

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