Axel axel.grude at
Mon Jul 9 11:54:38 UTC 2012

> On 09.07.2012 12:57, Axel wrote:
>> *Privacy: *the argument is tricky as email is necessarily server based
> The transfer, yes. Storage, no. For a data thief (whoever it may be, big or small), 
> it makes a huge difference whether he can access only current mail or all mail from 
> the last 5 years. All the hacked MSN accounts from friends that are spamming me are 
> just the most visible proof of that.
but if you are using IMAP, one of the advantages of that is the server storage. right?
>> But generally webmail does not allow backing up to local storage (and cleaning up 
>> on the server without loosing data) so IMO that is the biggest drawback.
> That's what I meant with integrity and verification, yes.
>>> If everybody has webmail, there's not even a reason for the ISP to offer IMAP or 
>>> POP3.
>> there is a trend with ISPs not to offer SMTP servers anymore
> Oh? I don't know about that, we have SMTP servers for all the big ISPs in the world 
> in our ISP database. Which ISPs are you thinking of?
my latest mobile broadband supplier ( a daughter of eircom) has discontinued 
and in fact shut down any and all mail servers (they do not supply mail addresses 
anymore) - I believe they reckon mail is dead, *"if you want email you can get that 
from google."* I remember a few discussions with their (absymally bad) support team, 
some of them didn't even know what a mail server is, let alone smtp.

So I had to switch to google for smtp relaying, which was messing with my "from" 
headers for a while.

It might be an exception but as it is a real cost saver for ISPs in terms of support I 
am afraid they are setting the trend here. (In case you are wondering why I use mobile 
broadband, our land lines are simply not good enough for DSL on the Irish countryside)

> I'm just surprised that this is already starting, but this is fairly sure to happen 
> once desktop email clients are going down in popularity. Once this happens, we're in 
> big trouble. To access mail from my mobile, I'll have to install the app from the 
> provider (while currently I can use the email application), and Facebook is showing 
> right now what the results of that will be: Self-service for data shopping, 
> outrageous privacy violations, and people can only watch and complain, but not do 
> anything.
Yep - I think the only safe way forward might be commercial email: a paid service, 
guaranteed to be private and advertisement free.
> (FWIW, Microsoft is pushing their own cloud services, too, so we can't depend on 
> Outlook.)
Well with outlook for the corporate sector it is slightly different as there are 
privately owned Exchange Servers.
>> For an average user it is actually hard to find free SMTP alternatives.
> If it's free and open to everybody, spammers will jump at it.
that's why  I am so pissed off with meteor and their decision to drop support for that 

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