NNTP and thunderbird-related lists

Robert Kaiser KaiRo at KaiRo.at
Sat Jul 31 19:02:22 UTC 2010


Dan Mosedale schrieb:
> On 7/29/10 1:49 PM, Robert Kaiser wrote:
>> Still, the push vs. pull problem is a feature of the transport
>> mechanism, and won't be solved by Thunderdrop UX work.
>
> This is where I'm still confused. If the way one thinks about the user
> experience is "expose the transport layer to the user", I could see
> where that might be the case.

I think abstracting the transport layer away is only a good thing as 
long as it doesn't break the fundamentals of that layer, esp. things 
like personally targeted (email, IM, social network "personal messages" 
- usually transported in some kind of "push" way) vs. broadcasted (feed, 
newsgroup, web forums, usually fully on the "pull" side) messages.
For example, it would seriously break my workflow if the whole firehose 
of information I'm casually subscribed to would be mixed with the 
personal messages in email.
And yes, it's already painful to have some newsletters, and some mailing 
lists like tb-planning break that somewhat. I try to avoid such 
annoyances where I have good alternatives (reading some OSM mailing 
lists via gmane and NNTP instead, for example).

> In general, current Thunderbird thinking is that we try to "design the
> experience to help the user solve a problem and abstract away the
> transport layer".

Maybe that's one of the reasons why I tend to have a large problem with 
some of the defaults Thunderbird has switched to. I generally need a 
high degree of organization to work, and things like mashing all kinds 
of (in my head) different priority things into one, which e.g. the 
merging of different accounts into one tree does, is nothing I can work 
with efficiently enough that I'd want it. Now, that may just be me, but 
it very well may affect some maybe significant, maybe insignificant 
portion of the Thunderbird user base.

It looks like we have a case of somewhat radically different views on 
the same subject here, which is good as long as it fosters thought and 
innovation and not fighting and building walls. ;-)

All that said, I'd be very happy if Thunderbird/SeaMonkey-Messaging 
would become significantly better for both personal/push and 
broadcast/pull messaging and integrate new forms of it. I also see that 
there's overlap of them, and e.g. when looking at something like 
Twitter, we're probably firmly in the in-between, depending on how you 
use it. ;-)

But here we surely grow very much off-topic on the current discussion, 
so I won't go further on that. :)

Robert Kaiser



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