NNTP and thunderbird-related lists

Dan Mosedale dmose at mozilla.org
Fri Jul 30 21:06:03 UTC 2010

  On 7/30/10 1:21 PM, Ben Bucksch wrote:
>  On 30.07.2010 20:50, Dan Mosedale wrote:
>>  On 7/29/10 5:49 PM, Ben Bucksch wrote:
>>> Once I have good reason, I cannot read the posts that pose that good 
>>> reason and cannot reply, because there's no history.
>> Cannot is a bit of a strong word here, given that the archives do exist.
> A bit irritating to have to say this here, but: I want to use 
> Thunderbird.

I'm sorry that you find it irritating to bring that up.  I'm actually 
glad you did, because I think it's important to be explicit that there 
is a very significant shared interest between most (though clearly not 
all) folks having tb-related discussions in being able to use 
Thunderbird for our day-to-day work (i.e. "eat our own dogfood").

I believe that the value here comes most especially from the fact that 
it aligns our experience with the experience of the users that we're 
producing our product for.  This in turn helps us understand what issues 
they're experiencing, and prioritize our work in line with that 

> Even with the archives, I cannot reply.  There's no way to get a 
> posting from a web archive into Thunderbird, so that I can reply 
> properly.  I don't want to reply without References header, starting a 
> new thread and looking like a moron. Esp. if I want to reply to 
> several posts.

Agreed, it would be really nice to be able to reply when interacting 
with the archives from an email list.

> These problems are not theoretical, but very frequent and very 
> practical - they (plus the subscription hassle) are one major reason 
> why I often don't post something even when I think I'd have something 
> useful to say. They are preventing open communication.

I'm a little confused here.  You post extremely frequently to 
tb-planning, and you've probably posted more than I to tb-enterprise.

> Also, speaking of which: Based on Ludo's and my request, Charles 
> Marcus posted something about the Account Creation Wizard on 
> tb-enterprise and here. He told me that he got the moderation reply, 
> that it's held for approval, that was half a week ago and it's still 
> not approved. So, that's stopping open communication, too.

Let's not get distracted.  The moderation issue has already been 
decided, regardless of transport, and it's not up for debate right now.  
If Charles is concerned that something is stuck in the queue, mailing 
the moderators is the right way to go.

I'd like to move this discussion forward to the actual rationale for the 
decision to use email without NNTP for these groups.  However, I'm not 
going to dig into that until we're more or less done talking about the 
pain points caused by having the groups only available via email, as 
they are now.

I think we as a group have a pretty good shared understanding of those 
pain points now, so unless you have something that's 
_very_significantly_ separate and different from the things we've 
already covered, I'd encourage you and others not to continue to discuss 
simply for the sake of trying to find perfect alignment around how we 
all conceptualize the issues in question, since, with this many 
participants in the discussion, that's not likely to ever happen.


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