<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:47 PM, Leman Bennett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lh.bennett@gmail.com" target="_blank">lh.bennett@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>They were debating on what to support.
It was either start up 64-bit officially or do the Metro version
instead. They chose Metro.<br></div></div></blockquote><div>Then they dropped Metro support, so that's a moot point. <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div>
<br>
I made no other arguments than it was never officially supported.
This subject was beaten to death within the community years ago.</div></div></blockquote><div>The fact that an issue was discussed doesn't mean the underlying problem was resolved. Clearly it is unresolved in this case. <br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div><div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 5/13/2014 5:42 PM, Judah Richardson wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>OK, if you want to argue semantics: what was the point of
last year's announcement then? Clearly something changed
between before and after it. Call it "official" or whatever
you want, clearly x64 builds were demoted in terms of
priority.<br>
<br>
</div>
Also, your argument doesn't change the fact that Firefox is
pretty limited as a 32-bit app with no per-tab processes. This
applies regardless of support history. The fact that 3 other
major browsers support some subset of those features doesn't
make the Firefox project look good either.<br>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:02 PM,
Leman Bennett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lh.bennett@gmail.com" target="_blank">lh.bennett@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>There was never any support for 64-Bit builds on
Windows. Period. Those builds were made for
tracking purposes only.<br>
<br>
As in, there was never anything dropped because it
was NEVER official. Those builds were for tracking
purposes only.
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/13/2014 1:31 PM, Judah Richardson wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">It's happened since
Mozilla dropped official support for Win64
builds* (I don't recall what version number
that happened with). At that time, I
switched to the 32-bit builds since they had
official support, but ran into all of the
issues you mentioned below. Finally I
decided to just take my chances and switch
(back) to the unofficial Win64 builds. I
haven't experienced any of the issues I had
with the 32-bit build on the 64-bit one.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">IMO though, the
32-bit build's issues stem from the fact
that it's a 32-bit build with a single
process, which makes it very easy to hit RAM
limits during extended heavy browsing
sessions. If Electrolysis (Mozilla's per-tab
process feature) were available, I'd be
willing to roll with it as I do
(occasionally) with Chrome Canary. But it
isn't.<br>
<br>
*Previous to that I'd been running Win64
builds exclusively since they were made
available, so I have no idea when the 32-bit
problem started. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">PS: One can't help
but see the irony in Safari and the much
maligned IE being the only major browsers
that support both native x64 <i>AND</i> per
tab processes, while Firefox supports
neither (for the most part).<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 13,
2014 at 12:31 PM, Siddharth Kumar Singh <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sks3286@gmail.com" target="_blank">sks3286@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Judah</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is this something that has
started for you after the release of
32.0a nightly?</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sid<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://brownianmotionofthoughts.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://brownianmotionofthoughts.wordpress.com</a></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
On 13-May-2014, at 22:46, Judah
Richardson <<a href="mailto:judahrichardson@gmail.com" target="_blank">judahrichardson@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Tue, May 13, 2014 at
11:43 AM, Siddharth
Kumar Singh <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sks3286@gmail.com" target="_blank">sks3286@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Been having lot
of stability
issues with the
x86 build ever
since the release
of the 32.0a
nightly.
Significantly I
have seen a rise
in the memory
usage for the same
number of tabs.
What previously
(upto 31.0a) took
1.3GB of RAM now
frequently
occupies 1.8GB and
I have seen it
climb upto 2.3GB.
Also, once the
process surpasses
1.8GB, the browser
becomes very
unstable
frequently getting
stuck on sites
that use flash, JS
(gmail, fb,
twitter) or when i
try to download a
file and the
browser has to
open the file
browser for me to
put in the save
location. In the
first two cases
the browser
becomes
unresponsive and i
am forced to end
the process using
the Windows Task
Manager. In the
third use case,
the browser window
disappears
completely and a
few seconds later
the plugin
container process
crashes.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>This describes what
I've seen with 32-bit
Firefox <i>exactly</i>.
It is, as I said in my
previous email,
completely unusable
for heavy browsing
sessions. This is
especially the case
nowadays when almost
any website you load
is practically a
self-contained
Javascript/HTML5
webapp. <br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As a test case,
I ran the same
tabs in 32.0a x64
nightly on my
linux 14.04 build
on the same
computer. The RAM
usage was
marginally less
(probably due to
Linux resource
management) but
the browser's
stability was
markedly higher.
IIRC the browser
crashed only once
in all my
testing. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Again: exactly.
Thanks for the input
:) <br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers!</div>
<div>Sid<br>
<br>
Sent from my
iPhone
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://brownianmotionofthoughts.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://brownianmotionofthoughts.wordpress.com</a></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
On
13-May-2014,
at 21:25,
Judah
Richardson
<<a href="mailto:judahrichardson@gmail.com" target="_blank">judahrichardson@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Tue, May 13,
2014 at 9:31
AM, Bryan
Price <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bytehead@gmail.com" target="_blank">bytehead@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Tue,
May 13, 2014
at 8:55 AM,
Łukasz Tomczak
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tomczak.luk@gmail.com" target="_blank">tomczak.luk@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>"[1]: x64
binaries are
larger,
slower, and
IIRC provide
no security
benefits. And
data shows
that basically
no one has
enough tabs
and windows to
actually hit
the x86 memory
limit."<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
Badly written
multi-threaded
applications
are too
slower, so it
means that we
should stay
with one-core
only? Oh come
on. I'm not
saying that
Mozilla should
drop support
for x86, I
just think
that they
should get
some more
hands to work
on x64,
nothing more.<br>
<br>
</div>
Anyway, we
have got an
update today.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>Woohoo!
I didn't even
bother to
check like I
usually do
when I start
in the
morning.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Also,
I've seen my
64-bit Firefox
use 6+ GB of
memory on a
regular basis,
especially
when I was
using Google
Reader and
using that for
a few hours.
Yeah, it's
going to take
quite the
number of
static open
web pages to
hit the 4GB
limit, but
today we
rarely see a
static web
page.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Same
here. 32-bit
Firefox
crashes,
becomes
unresponsive,
or just
disappears
entirely in my
browsing
sessions for
the same
reason,
rendering it
unusable. <br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> <br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-05-13
3:19 GMT+02:00
Alex Jordan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alexander3223098@gmail.com" target="_blank">alexander3223098@gmail.com</a>></span>:
<div>
<div><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">On
May 12, 2014
2:46 PM,
"Łukasz
Tomczak" <<a href="mailto:tomczak.luk@gmail.com" target="_blank">tomczak.luk@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> I don't
know why
Mozilla keeps
forgetting
about x64
build of Fx.
Time, when x86
was ruling
passed. x64 is
the future of
IT, soon we
won't have x86
systems and I
don't know why
x86 is a
priority for
them.<br>
Because,
shocking as it
may be,
Mozilla is a
very
resource-constrained
organization.
Which would
you rather do:
keep going
with x86,
which is
well-established
in the
marketplace
and in
mozilla-central,
well-tested,
and
future-compatible,
or spend a
huge amount of
effort on x64
for a very
questionable[1]
benefit?</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>If that's
the case, then
why do
supported
64-bit builds
exist for
Linux? This
existence
shoots your
argument full
of holes.<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">
And remember
that because
x64 isn't
backwards-compatible,
Mozilla would
have to
maintain both
(or drop x86,
and lose the
large portion
of users who
don't have x64
yet</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Again,
both 32- and
64-bit builds
exist for
Linux, while
"the large
portion" - to
use your own
words - of
Firefox users
are on
Windows. Your
argument is
inconsistent
at best.<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">
- cutting into
Firefox's
already
relatively
small market
share).<br>
Think about
all that for a
minute. That's
why Mozilla
doesn't focus
on, as you
label it, "the
future of IT".</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> Oh
really? Then
what was the
whole "Kill
IE6" thing <a href="http://www.tomsguide.com/us/mozilla-firefox-ie6-ie9,news-10381.html" target="_blank">http://www.tomsguide.com/us/mozilla-firefox-ie6-ie9,news-10381.html</a>
about then? If
"Mozilla
doesn't focus
on ... the
future" -
using your own
words -
shouldn't the
organization
found a way to
work with
IE6's
continued
existence?
IIRC, one of
the reasons
official Win64
build support
doesn't exist
is Mozilla
still uses an
outdated build
process in an
effort to
support XP, a
*13 year old
OS.* Clearly
there's a lot
of
inconsistency
if not
outright
hypocrisy to
be found in
Mozilla's
stance on this
matter.<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">
[1]: x64
binaries are
larger,
slower, and
IIRC provide
no security
benefits.</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Again,
64-bit builds
are officially
supported for
Linux, so
there's no
reason not to
support them
on Windows,
which has a
much higher
install base.<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">
And data shows
that basically
no one has
enough tabs
and windows to
actually hit
the x86 memory
limit.</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Which
data? Could
you provide a
link to this?
Obviously you
have users -
such as Brian
and myself -
whose
experience
contradicts
that.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Oh yeah,
and because
Firefox is the
only major
browser
lacking
per-tab
processes -
what happened
to
Electrolysis,
guys? - 64-bit
builds are the
only way to
circumvent the
32-bit RAM
limit using
it. There's
quite
literally no
other way.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>IMO,
Mozilla is
exhibiting the
same contempt
for Windows
users that I
experienced at
a software dev
company I once
worked for
that was
ostensibly
multiplatform
but in reality
was "Mac
first, screw
everybody
else." The
decision to
kill official
Win64 support
was made in
the same
manner: by
fiat with no
consultation
with or
concern for
end users.
Based on this,
I do perceive
an outright
antipathy
towards myself
and other
Windows users
from Mozilla.
As someone
who's
contributed to
the testing
and
troubleshooting
process and
fiercely
defended and
advocated
Firefox in the
face of "just
use Chrome"
that everyone
else says, I
can't help but
feel betrayed,
snubbed, and
slapped in the
face by this.
Go big or go
home. Do
something well
or don't do it
at all. Please
stop
half-***ing
Windows
development.<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
"I never said
half the
things the
Internet says
I said." --
Mark Twain </font></span></div>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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mailing list</span><br>
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