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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">There was never any support for 64-Bit
builds on Windows. Period. Those builds were made for tracking
purposes only.<br>
<br>
As in, there was never anything dropped because it was NEVER
official. Those builds were for tracking purposes only.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/13/2014 1:31 PM, Judah Richardson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAB7kt3FvgUDzwqeJio9XHJ16RRQiX4nJtMfykZRW4g20LjhFcg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">It's happened since Mozilla dropped
official support for Win64 builds* (I don't recall what
version number that happened with). At that time, I switched
to the 32-bit builds since they had official support, but ran
into all of the issues you mentioned below. Finally I decided
to just take my chances and switch (back) to the unofficial
Win64 builds. I haven't experienced any of the issues I had
with the 32-bit build on the 64-bit one.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">IMO though, the 32-bit build's issues
stem from the fact that it's a 32-bit build with a single
process, which makes it very easy to hit RAM limits during
extended heavy browsing sessions. If Electrolysis (Mozilla's
per-tab process feature) were available, I'd be willing to
roll with it as I do (occasionally) with Chrome Canary. But it
isn't.<br>
<br>
*Previous to that I'd been running Win64 builds exclusively
since they were made available, so I have no idea when the
32-bit problem started. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">PS: One can't help but see the irony in
Safari and the much maligned IE being the only major browsers
that support both native x64 <i>AND</i> per tab processes,
while Firefox supports neither (for the most part).<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 12:31 PM,
Siddharth Kumar Singh <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sks3286@gmail.com"
target="_blank">sks3286@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Judah</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is this something that has started for you after
the release of 32.0a nightly?</div>
<div class="">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sid<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://brownianmotionofthoughts.wordpress.com"
target="_blank">http://brownianmotionofthoughts.wordpress.com</a></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div><br>
On 13-May-2014, at 22:46, Judah Richardson <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:judahrichardson@gmail.com"
target="_blank">judahrichardson@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 13,
2014 at 11:43 AM, Siddharth Kumar Singh <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sks3286@gmail.com"
target="_blank">sks3286@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Been having lot of stability
issues with the x86 build ever since
the release of the 32.0a nightly.
Significantly I have seen a rise in
the memory usage for the same number
of tabs. What previously (upto
31.0a) took 1.3GB of RAM now
frequently occupies 1.8GB and I have
seen it climb upto 2.3GB. Also, once
the process surpasses 1.8GB, the
browser becomes very unstable
frequently getting stuck on sites
that use flash, JS (gmail, fb,
twitter) or when i try to download a
file and the browser has to open the
file browser for me to put in the
save location. In the first two
cases the browser becomes
unresponsive and i am forced to end
the process using the Windows Task
Manager. In the third use case, the
browser window disappears completely
and a few seconds later the plugin
container process crashes.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>This describes what I've seen with
32-bit Firefox <i>exactly</i>. It is,
as I said in my previous email,
completely unusable for heavy browsing
sessions. This is especially the case
nowadays when almost any website you
load is practically a self-contained
Javascript/HTML5 webapp. <br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="auto">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As a test case, I ran the same
tabs in 32.0a x64 nightly on my
linux 14.04 build on the same
computer. The RAM usage was
marginally less (probably due to
Linux resource management) but the
browser's stability was markedly
higher. IIRC the browser crashed
only once in all my testing. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Again: exactly. Thanks for the input
:) <br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="auto">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers!</div>
<div>Sid<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://brownianmotionofthoughts.wordpress.com"
target="_blank">http://brownianmotionofthoughts.wordpress.com</a></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
On 13-May-2014, at 21:25, Judah
Richardson <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:judahrichardson@gmail.com"
target="_blank">judahrichardson@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Tue, May 13, 2014 at
9:31 AM, Bryan Price <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bytehead@gmail.com" target="_blank">bytehead@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
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solid
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<div dir="ltr">
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Tue, May
13, 2014 at
8:55 AM,
Łukasz Tomczak
<span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:tomczak.luk@gmail.com"
target="_blank">tomczak.luk@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
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solid
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>"[1]: x64
binaries are
larger,
slower, and
IIRC provide
no security
benefits. And
data shows
that basically
no one has
enough tabs
and windows to
actually hit
the x86 memory
limit."<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
Badly written
multi-threaded
applications
are too
slower, so it
means that we
should stay
with one-core
only? Oh come
on. I'm not
saying that
Mozilla should
drop support
for x86, I
just think
that they
should get
some more
hands to work
on x64,
nothing more.<br>
<br>
</div>
Anyway, we
have got an
update today.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>Woohoo! I
didn't even
bother to
check like I
usually do
when I start
in the
morning.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Also, I've
seen my 64-bit
Firefox use 6+
GB of memory
on a regular
basis,
especially
when I was
using Google
Reader and
using that for
a few hours.
Yeah, it's
going to take
quite the
number of
static open
web pages to
hit the 4GB
limit, but
today we
rarely see a
static web
page.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Same here. 32-bit
Firefox crashes,
becomes unresponsive,
or just disappears
entirely in my
browsing sessions for
the same reason,
rendering it unusable.
<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote
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<div>
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div
class="gmail_quote">2014-05-13
3:19 GMT+02:00
Alex Jordan <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:alexander3223098@gmail.com"
target="_blank">alexander3223098@gmail.com</a>></span>:
<div>
<div><br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
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<p dir="ltr">On
May 12, 2014
2:46 PM,
"Łukasz
Tomczak" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:tomczak.luk@gmail.com"
target="_blank">tomczak.luk@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> I don't
know why
Mozilla keeps
forgetting
about x64
build of Fx.
Time, when x86
was ruling
passed. x64 is
the future of
IT, soon we
won't have x86
systems and I
don't know why
x86 is a
priority for
them.<br>
Because,
shocking as it
may be,
Mozilla is a
very
resource-constrained
organization.
Which would
you rather do:
keep going
with x86,
which is
well-established
in the
marketplace
and in
mozilla-central,
well-tested,
and
future-compatible,
or spend a
huge amount of
effort on x64
for a very
questionable[1]
benefit?</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>If that's the case,
then why do supported
64-bit builds exist
for Linux? This
existence shoots your
argument full of
holes.<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
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<div dir="ltr">
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
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<div>
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
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<p dir="ltr">
And remember
that because
x64 isn't
backwards-compatible,
Mozilla would
have to
maintain both
(or drop x86,
and lose the
large portion
of users who
don't have x64
yet</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Again, both 32- and
64-bit builds exist
for Linux, while "the
large portion" - to
use your own words -
of Firefox users are
on Windows. Your
argument is
inconsistent at best.<br>
</div>
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class="gmail_quote"
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<div dir="ltr">
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
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<div>
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
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<p dir="ltr">
- cutting into
Firefox's
already
relatively
small market
share).<br>
Think about
all that for a
minute. That's
why Mozilla
doesn't focus
on, as you
label it, "the
future of IT".</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
Oh really? Then what
was the whole "Kill
IE6" thing <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.tomsguide.com/us/mozilla-firefox-ie6-ie9,news-10381.html"
target="_blank">http://www.tomsguide.com/us/mozilla-firefox-ie6-ie9,news-10381.html</a>
about then? If
"Mozilla doesn't focus
on ... the future" -
using your own words -
shouldn't the
organization found a
way to work with IE6's
continued existence?
IIRC, one of the
reasons official Win64
build support doesn't
exist is Mozilla still
uses an outdated build
process in an effort
to support XP, a *13
year old OS.* Clearly
there's a lot of
inconsistency if not
outright hypocrisy to
be found in Mozilla's
stance on this matter.<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
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<div>
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
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<p dir="ltr">
[1]: x64
binaries are
larger,
slower, and
IIRC provide
no security
benefits.</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Again, 64-bit
builds are officially
supported for Linux,
so there's no reason
not to support them on
Windows, which has a
much higher install
base.<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
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solid
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<div>
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
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<p dir="ltr">
And data shows
that basically
no one has
enough tabs
and windows to
actually hit
the x86 memory
limit.</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Which data? Could
you provide a link to
this? Obviously you
have users - such as
Brian and myself -
whose experience
contradicts that.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Oh yeah, and
because Firefox is the
only major browser
lacking per-tab
processes - what
happened to
Electrolysis, guys? -
64-bit builds are the
only way to circumvent
the 32-bit RAM limit
using it. There's
quite literally no
other way.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>IMO, Mozilla is
exhibiting the same
contempt for Windows
users that I
experienced at a
software dev company I
once worked for that
was ostensibly
multiplatform but in
reality was "Mac
first, screw everybody
else." The decision to
kill official Win64
support was made in
the same manner: by
fiat with no
consultation with or
concern for end users.
Based on this, I do
perceive an outright
antipathy towards
myself and other
Windows users from
Mozilla. As someone
who's contributed to
the testing and
troubleshooting
process and fiercely
defended and advocated
Firefox in the face of
"just use Chrome" that
everyone else says, I
can't help but feel
betrayed, snubbed, and
slapped in the face by
this. Go big or go
home. Do something
well or don't do it at
all. Please stop
half-***ing Windows
development.<br>
</div>
<blockquote
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style="margin:0px 0px
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<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div
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<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
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<div>
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<div
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<div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br
clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
"I never said
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Internet says
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Nightly-testers mailing list
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</pre>
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