<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Axel Hecht <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:l10n@mozilla.com" target="_blank">l10n@mozilla.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Here's a few observations of mine:<br>
    <br>
    I only see a very limited set of patches trying to get uplifted.
    Which means that most folks probably do a pretty good judgement on
    whether they should uplift or not.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don't believe that this follows at all. Good judgement includes not only of saying</div><div>no to things that shouldn't be uplifted, but also saying yes to things that shouldl.</div><div><br></div><div>Say that out of 1000 patches, 50 should probably get uplifted, but people apply</div><div>really high standards and so only the best 5 get uplifted. That's bad judgement</div><div>not good.</div><div> </div><div>-Ekr</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    I see very few patches that request uplift that shouldn't. Mostly
    because people don't understand the tree rules in detail.<br>
    <br>
    Thus, if we make exceptions, we should only make those that we
    ensure by an hg hook that validates that patches as landed stick to
    the rules. An existing example is the l10n-approval hook, which only
    exists because developers said "No string changes in this patch"
    wrongly too often.<br>
    <br>
    That said, something like the devtools theme sounds like a good
    candidate for an exception.<br>
    <br>
    I've also pondered whether all approvals need to be done by relman,
    or if there's a set of engineers that can help with those requests.<br>
    OTH, relman also wants to get more involved in Nightly, I heard.
    Those two probably build one context to look at.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
    <br>
    Axel</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br>
    <br>
    <div>On 11/21/15 1:19 AM, Richard Newman
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">I think I'm with cpeterson on this. Three cents:
        <div>
          <ol>
            <li>My experience has been that, if I want to, I can write
              an approval request that is persuasive enough to land just
              about anything in Aurora.</li>
            <li>I'd rather have developers take an extra week to get
              something right, and uplift it to early Aurora with module
              peer approval, than rush to get changes in just before a
              merge to avoid having to go through the uplift approval
              process. Higher quality, less stress.</li>
            <li>I would tentatively assert that the primary reason we
              don't get more bustage from uplifts is because of
              developers not asking to uplift risky changes, rather than
              approvals being denied.</li>
          </ol>
          <div>In short: I'm in favor of removing process where it has
            more cost than benefit.</div>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>(Obviously the localization process still plays in here, so
          it's not a total free-for-all.)</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Chris
          Peterson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cpeterson@mozilla.com" target="_blank">cpeterson@mozilla.com</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">How often
            are Aurora uplifts denied for other types of code changes
            (C++ or JS)?<br>
            <br>
            Why not allow any code change to be uplifted to Aurora based
            on the developer's discretion? Or allow a patch's reviewer
            to a+ for Aurora uplift?
            <div>
              <div><br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                On 11/20/15 11:22 AM, Gijs Kruitbosch wrote:<br>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                  Hello,<br>
                  <br>
                  I would like to propose that we eliminate the explicit
                  aurora approval requirement for changesets that meet
                  ALL of the following criteria:<br>
                  - only change CSS and/or image files<br>
                  - are landing in the first 4 weeks of the aurora
                  cycle;<br>
                  - have landed on m-c and stuck<br>
                  <br>
                  Why would this not cause horror and chaos:<br>
                  - I don't recall ever seeing this type of changes be
                  denied aurora uplift;<br>
                  - I don't recall ever seeing this type of changes be
                  backed out of aurora (but stay on m-c) after uplift
                  because they broke the tree;<br>
                  - There would be no *obligation* to land changes on
                  aurora (just the possibility to do so) - so if we
                  refactor half the theme, engineers should be sensible
                  enough not to uplift based just on this rule and
                  either let things ride the train or request explicit
                  approval;<br>
                  - We already effectively have test-only auto-approval
                  for intermittent test fixes that worked on Nightly, so
                  there is precedent that has been pretty problem-free
                  to the best of my knowledge;<br>
                  <br>
                  Why do this?<br>
                  - Reduce process overhead. I don't think that the time
                  I spend writing the approval requests and the time
                  relman spends reviewing them is useful;<br>
                  - It would help streamline maintenance of the
                  devedition theme, where we often don't find issues
                  until right after merge day;<br>
                  - Reduce the time theme fixes take to reach general
                  release audiences;<br>
                  - I have repeatedly seen mention that folks handling
                  the approvals are overloaded, and this would lighten
                  that burden a little, which would help with response
                  time for other requests.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  How do people feel about this? Are there reasons not
                  to do this that I've missed? Would people want to
                  argue that there should be even fewer restrictions
                  and/or are there other sets of changes that we could
                  do this with?<br>
                  <br>
                  Gijs<br>
                  <br>
                  (please follow-up on firefox-dev)<br>
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