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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I &nbsp;believe that identification of such a list&nbsp; is
something that we (ES3.1 and ES4) are going to have to work on together. &nbsp;Getting
the 3.1 draft. largely complete should be an enabler to get that started.&nbsp;
Resolution is also a two way street that is also going to require joint work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We&#8217;re working to get a technically complete draft out by
the middle of next week so people can start reviewing it in preparation for
Oslo.&nbsp; There is a fair chance that we won&#8217;t get the &#8220;formal&#8221;
specification work done for a couple for features by then.&nbsp; If that proves
to be the case we intend to include a summary description of the missing
features and then follow that up with spec. supplements covering those features
as quickly as we can.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Maciej Stachowiak
[mailto:mjs@apple.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 26, 2008 4:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Allen Wirfs-Brock<br>
<b>Cc:</b> es3.x-discuss@mozilla.org x-discuss; es4-discuss@mozilla.org
es4-discuss<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: &quot;strict mode&quot; becomes &quot;use subset
cautious&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal>On Jun 26, 2008, at 1:34 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>At today&#8217;s ES 3.1 conference call (see<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a
href="http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=meetings:minutes_jun_24_2008">http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=meetings:minutes_jun_24_2008</a></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0070C0'>)<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>we agreed to adopt the
essence of the proposal below and to use the subset name &#8220;cautious&#8221;
to referred to the set of restrictions formerly known as &#8220;strict
mode&#8221;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal>Will ES4 also be making this change? If not, we need to add
it to the list of subset rule violations. Is anyone keeping such a list? Does
the ES3.1 committee intend to address all such issues by the July timeframe
that ES3.1 is apparently targetting?<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal>Maciej<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>_____________________________________________<br>
<b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Allen Wirfs-Brock<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Wednesday, June 25,
2008 12:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Pratap Lakshman
(VJ#SDK); Adam Peller; Sam Ruby; Mark S. Miller<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a
href="mailto:es3.x-discuss@mozilla.org">es3.x-discuss@mozilla.org</a><span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>x-discuss;<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a
href="mailto:es4-discuss@mozilla.org">es4-discuss@mozilla.org</a><span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>es4-discuss<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>RE: Brief Minutes
[RE: ES3.1 WG phone conference 24 June 08:00 PT]</span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Following up on the &#8220;Strict Mode&#8221; discussion&#8230;</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As I advocated on the call, I think that by selecting
&#8220;strict mode&#8221; a developer is really choosing to restrict themselves
to using a subset of the complete language.&nbsp; The future-proofing
issues&nbsp; of this relate to the possibility that there might be multiple
such subsets that a developer might need to choose among.&nbsp; Should there be
multiple named &#8220;strict modes&#8221; to choose among, how should they be
named, can &#8220;strictness&#8221; of a mode increase in future versions, etc?</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think some of the controversy could be eliminated if we simply
eliminate the term &#8220;Strict Mode&#8221;.&nbsp; Instead I propose we have a
&#8220;Use Subset&#8221; directive&nbsp; and that we name specific subsets in a
meaningful and generally positive manner.&nbsp; For example,&nbsp; since the
motivation of most of the proposed restrictions in ES3.1 strict mode is to
provide a safer subset language I suggest that we call this subset
&#8220;safety&#8221;&nbsp; (or perhaps &#8220;safety1&#8221; or
&#8220;safetyA&#8221;&nbsp; or &#8220;safety2008&#8221; implying that in the
future different safe subsets might be defined and we don&#8217;t want to give
undo importance to this initial one).</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So, the first line of a &#8220;strict mode&#8221; compilation
unit would now look like&#8221;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;use subset
safety&#8221;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I would suggest that we actually define &#8220;use subset&#8221;
such that a comma separated list of subsets is allowed.&nbsp; So, if somebody
decided to define a subset that only contained the features of ES3 you might
see something like this:</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;use subset
safety,ES3&#8221;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Since subsets are sets of restrictions, listing multiple subsets
means to take the union of the restrictions imposed by all of the listed
subsets.&nbsp; So &#8220;use subset safty,ES3&#8221; means that this
compilation unit may only use those features defined by ECMA 262-3 and which
are not excluded by the &#8220;safety&#8221; subset.&nbsp; So, assuming that
&#8220;safety&#8221; excludes use of the with statement, such a compilation
unit could not include use of the with statement nor could it include any use
of a feature that is new in ES3.1 or ES4.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Future versions of ECMAScript may add exclusions to a subset
defined by an earlier version as long as the added exclusions only restrict
capabilities that didn&#8217;t exist in the earlier version. For example, ES 4
in supporting the ES3.1 &#8220;safety&#8221; subset but add to it any features
that are added in ES 4&nbsp; but which are considered to be unsafe.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>A future version may not add&nbsp; exclusion to an pre-existing
subset that restricts features that existed when the original subset was
defined.&nbsp; For example if ES3.14 or ES5 decided that the for-in statement
was unsafe, it could not add that restriction to the &#8220;safety&#8221;
subset.&nbsp; However, it could define a new subset named perhaps
&#8220;safety2010&#8221; that includes all the restrictions of the &#8220;safety&#8221;
subset and in addition disallows use of the &#8220;for&#8221; statement.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If a compilation unit specifies a subset that is not known to
the implementation that is processing it, that subset restriction is simply
ignored. The code in the unit is still either valid or invalid on its own merit
just like is the case when no subset had been specified.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>_____________________________________________<br>
<b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Pratap Lakshman
(VJ#SDK)<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, June 24,
2008 11:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Adam Peller; Sam Ruby;
Mark S. Miller; Allen Wirfs-Brock; Pratap Lakshman (VJ#SDK)<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Brief Minutes
[RE: ES3.1 WG phone conference 24 June 08:00 PT]</span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Here are brief minutes from our call.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Please take a look, and let me know if you want any changes by
your EOD.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I&#8217;ll upload it to the wiki and send a copy to Patrick
Charollais (ECMA) for posting on the ECMA site tomorrow night (Redmond time).</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Attendees</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Adam Peller (IBM)</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Sam Ruby (IBM)</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Mark Miller (Google)</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Allen Wirfs-Brock (Microsoft)<br>
Pratap Lakshman (Microsoft)</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Agenda</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>On posting the latest draft to the wiki</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Getters/Setters</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Decimal</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Setting up a review based on Lars' feedback on the 11 June draft</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Minutes</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Would like to add a couple more items to agenda that we can get
to if we have the time (1) inconsistence language like &quot;as if by the
expression &#8230;&quot; pervasive in ES3 (e.g. section 11.1.4 Array
Initializer: &quot;create a new array as if by the expression new
Array()&quot;; needs to be fixed in ES3.1 (2) ES3/ES4 based review.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>On posting the latest draft to the wiki</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The latest draft has been uploaded to the wiki. This the draft
as of 24 June 2008 - it has all the edits related to the statics on Object, the
introduction of the [[Extensible]] property, the revised notation for JSON, and
placeholders for Decimal - by next week we should try to have a technically
complete draft - the draft may still have some place holders but it should
still be enough to get circulated within TC39 as an artifact that can be
reviewed - by the time we meet in Oslo, each place holder must have a
supplementary doc that can be discussed F2F.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>'const' needs to be introduced into the grammar - what does it
mean to be a reserved word? - you cannot use it as a variable name - note that
we have introduced the ability to use is as the name of a property though
&#8211; const has letrec like&nbsp; scoping &#8211; not subject to hoisting.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>reformed scoping needs to be introduced - but for doing that we
may want to introduce the notion of a 'block activation' as an expository
device</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&#8216;abc&#8217;[i] is using the ES3 like algorithm convention
&#8211; can we use the new convention that eliminates the need for writing
gotos &#8211; pratapL to investigate &#8211; also, for all new functionality we
need to worry about argument conditioning &#8211; for e.g. if an algorithm
expects to be handed an object, make sure we call toObject on the argument that
is passed in.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Getters/Setters</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Surface syntax spec from Kris looked Ok - need to ensure it is
using the Meta APIs - Allen to check surface syntax integration.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Decimal</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Decimal changes are isolated and can be done without impacting
content in the rest of the doc - Sam can use the latest draft from the wiki as
a starting point.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Strict mode</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>2 controversies coupled to each other &#8211; proposed ES4 wants
to keep &#8216;with&#8217; in their strict mode; ES3.1 wants to remove
&#8216;with&#8217; in its strict mode &#8211; need to be clear about the
purpose of strict mode &#8211; the other is &#8220;what do we mean by
subset?&#8221; &#8211; there was one formal definition from Lars, and Doug had
called out a less formal notion &#8211; we may end up using Doug&#8217;s less
formal notion (especially if we cannot resolve the &#8216;with&#8217; issue).</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Binary strict mode is naively limiting &#8211; each version may
want to allow/limit specific features &#8211; strict mode allows users to say
&#8216;I am subscribing to this particular subset, and I am aware of all its
limitations&#8217; &#8211; but if the subset is a moving target how do they do
that? - sure, we can introduce a more elaborate mechanism &#8211; it would make
it easier for us to not have to resolve arguments &#8211; but it would open up
a larger combinatorial space of possibilities &#8211; the SunOS vs. MacOS
problem; the former was highly customizable, however you invariably got it
wrong; the latter was not customizable, but what you got was good enough to get
the job done &#8211; more knobs need not mean better.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>An elaborate mechanism enables chaos at the composability
boundary &#8211; but how does it matter if you are opaquely including a module?
&#8211; Caja will use ES3.1 strict mode for all uncajoled code &#8211; OTOH an
elaborate mechanism can enforce a subsetting profile &#8211; languages can now
more directly enforce Caja like semantics.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&#8216;use strict 3.1&#8217; could be a potential syntax to turn
on 3.1 level strict mode &#8211; with the possibility that the 3.1 may be
replaced with a list &#8211; instead of tying it to the language version
number, we can also just say something like &#8216;use strict a&#8217; or
&#8216;use strict 1&#8217; &#8211; can also use Perl-style &#8216;use strict no
with&#8217; (where we mention the specific restriction we want to enable)
&#8211; that seems a good idea too &#8211; in any case, named restriction sets
for ES3.1 and proposed ES4 will be useful to discuss this proposal further.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Meeting adjourned.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>pratap</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#0070C0'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>_____________________________________________<br>
<b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Pratap Lakshman
(VJ#SDK)<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, June 24,
2008 6:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Pratap Lakshman
(VJ#SDK);<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a
href="mailto:crock@yahoo-inc.com">crock@yahoo-inc.com</a>; Mark S. Miller; Kris
Zyp; Mike Cowlishaw; Adam Peller; Sam Ruby; Lars Hansen;<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a href="mailto:ggaren@apple.com">ggaren@apple.com</a>;
Allen Wirfs-Brock<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>ES3.1 WG phone
conference 24 June 08:00 PT</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Agenda:</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>(1) On posting the latest draft to the wiki</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>(2) Getters/Setters</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>(3) Decimal</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>(4) setting up a review based on Lars' feedback on the 11 June
draft</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Let me know if you want to add any items to the agenda</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Here is the dial-in information for our phone conference at 08:00
AM (PT):</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Tel: 866 500 6738 (US); 203 480 8000 (intl)</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Participant code: 885535</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>pratap</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:6.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
Es3.x-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Es3.x-discuss@mozilla.org">Es3.x-discuss@mozilla.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es3.x-discuss">https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es3.x-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

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