[nodejs] Re: javascript vision thing

kai zhu kaizhu256 at gmail.com
Sun Sep 23 01:45:00 UTC 2018


this is not a troll-account, and I’m a live-person with realistic (albeit uncomfortable) views on limitations of javascript product-development in industry.

es6 seems to adopt java’s philosophy that with careful-planning, you can create semi-permanent, well-abstracted code during the design-phase that will last throughout the product-development cycle.  my experience with numerous web-projects, both successful and failed, indicates this approach as flawed.  and i believe most people in industry who have been burned by failed web-projects in the past (due to over-encumbered/engineered initial-designs that couldn’t cope with realities of product integration/qa) are wary of hiring unproven java-turned-js devs who still hold these brittle design-philosophies.

there's no such thing as “permanent” javascript-code in product-development.  everything eventually gets rewritten, when the inevitable business-critical ux feature-request comes in that you must accommodate, even though it breaks your current integration-workflow.  when this common scenario plays out in industry:

a) the [inexperienced] unqualified js-dev likely dithers, unwilling/unable to unwind the complicated initial-design they architected to accommodate the feature-request, while
b) the [experienced] qualified js-dev would have anticipated this, and simply rewrites their initial expendable-code with new expendable-code to accommodate the feature-request (with expectation it will be rewritten again-and-again in the future).

its difficult for employers to discern whether js-devs will exhibit trait a) or trait b) through technical-interview alone.  and es6 skews this with design-patterns biased towards trait a), further confusing employers seeking qualified js-devs.

kai zhu
kaizhu256 at gmail.com



> On 23 Sep 2018, at 1:43 AM, Zlatko Đurić <zladuric at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I don't know why I can't resist this troll. I've just spent half an hour writing an elaborate answer on how the whole premise is wrong, knowing that this is a known troll account. Well, I've deleted it all and will not fall for his trolling again.
> 
>  (Btw I thought this list is moderated, how come his same-all troll ramblings always pass the mods?)
> 
> Zlatko 
> 
> On Sat 22. Sep 2018 at 18:26, Michael J. Ryan <tracker1 at gmail.com <mailto:tracker1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Considering how many js devs fail to answer "what values evaluate to false in JavaScript". It isn't the new features that are the problem.
> 
> There's a combination of problems.  People believing they're better developers than they are.  People who look down on js and front end development.  And those ahead to learn new things.
> 
> JS isn't really evolving any more than Java, C#, go, python and others as a whole in the past 20 years.  And having to fight uphill to use newer features is a pain.  I'm not on the younger side of this (I'm 42)... But I've managed to keep up.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 21, 2018, 17:14 kai zhu <kaizhu256 at gmail.com <mailto:kaizhu256 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> a problem i've observed in industry is that many es6 language-features have the unintended-consequence of incentivising incompetent javascript-developers at the expense of competent-ones.  its generally difficult for many employers (even those knowledgeable in general-purpose programming), to discern between:
> 
> a) a competent javascript employee/contractor who can get things done and ship products (albeit with legitimate delays), and
> b) an incompetent-one who can easily hide themselves in non-productive es6 busywork, and continually pushback product-integration (again with “legitimate” delays, until its too late).
> 
> its gotten bad enough that many industry-employers no longer trust general-purpose-programming technical-interviews when recruiting js-devs, and rely almost exclusively on either a) an applicant's reputation / word-of-mouth for getting things done, or b) their ability to complete a time-consuming tech-challenge, where they must demonstrate ability to ship a mini-product.  both methods are not scalable to meet the demand in industry for qualified js-devs in product-development.
> 
> the only solution i can think of to this industry-problem is to hold-back on introducing new disruptive/unproven javascript design-patterns, and figuring out how to educate the industry with tightened javascript style-guides and existing design-patterns proven to work (more is less); generally, ways to enhance the current, woefully inadequate “bullsh*t detector” of employers so they can better identify and mentor/train/weed-out unqualified js-devs.
> 
> kai zhu
> kaizhu256 at gmail.com <mailto:kaizhu256 at gmail.com>
> 
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> -- 
> Zlatko

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