How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

kai zhu kaizhu256 at gmail.com
Sat Oct 28 08:19:08 UTC 2017


naveen, how are es modules or generators superior in getting a
frontend product shipped?  "powerful" does not equate superior.

success in shipping a product correlates highly to having maintainable
code (with consistent styguide) that's easy to debug.  generators are
a nightmare to debug (compared to callbacks and promises) when doing
integration and qa.  es modules have confusing async-magic that few
frontend devs really understand, and results in brittle module-loading
code nobody wants to touch and risk breaking after its written.

the es6+ projects i've worked on all have significant amounts of
brittleness which leads to them being difficult-to-ship as features
could not be added or modified without fear of code-changes breaking
something.  2016 and 2017 have been rough years for anyone trying to
get es6+ products shipped.  and i suspect it will remain the same for
2018.

if you're a product manager and your priority is to ship a frontend
product, then your safest bet is to avoid es6 altogether.

On 10/27/17, Naveen Chawla <naveen.chwl at gmail.com> wrote:
> kai zhu, it sounds like you have a bad manager who is over eagerly pushing
> for a disruptive transition in a well established ES5 project to new
> features. The way to gracefully introduce the new features is incrementally
> in new code, not existing code, or when modifying existing code. If your
> manager is pushing to translate the whole code base and you are finding
> that a waste of time, then that is not the fault of TC39 or the language;
> that is the fault of the manager.
>
> The features themselves are superior, more powerful and easier to use than
> the former ES5, so "everyday javascript programmers" will have a better
> time whether they are writing tiny or massive apps.
>
> Yes, new apps should use those features immediately, and the developers
> will experience the benefits, sometimes very significant
>
>
> On Fri, 27 Oct 2017, 11:52 am kai zhu, <kaizhu256 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> in frontend-development, the majority of use-cases are for
>> small/medium-scale applications, where es6 toolings are inappropriate
>> due to their complexity.
>>
>> "reliable, well-engineered, large-scale, performant applications" are
>> a niche application of javascript.  tc39 should focus on making lives
>> of everyday javascript programmers easier (who mainly want simple and
>> stable tooling for simple/moderate webapps), instead of catering to
>> niche people wanting google/facebook-scale apps.
>>
>>
>> On 10/27/17, Bob Myers <rtm at gol.com> wrote:
>> > If you don't like those features or the associated tooling, then don't
>> use
>> > them.
>> > Meanwhile, other people will be using them to build reliable,
>> > well-engineered, large-scale, performant applications.
>> > Bob
>> >
>> > On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:57 AM, kai zhu <kaizhu256 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> tc39 is partly to blame for promoting the perception of javascript
>> >> language instability, which promotes tooling instability.
>> >>
>> >> generators, es modules, destructing, let, fat arrows have caused
>> >> tremendous harm to tooling stability, which has made
>> >> frontend-development hell for everyone.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 10/27/17, Jordan Harband <ljharb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > aka "how it feels to learn"?
>> >> >
>> >> > A decent response:
>> >> > https://medium.com/front-end-hacking/how-it-feels-to-learn-
>> >> javascript-in-2017-a934b801fbe
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:38 PM, J Decker <d3ck0r at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> (humor?)
>> >> >> https://hackernoon.com/how-it-feels-to-learn-javascript-in-
>> >> 2016-
>> >> >> d3a717dd577f
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It all seemed so simple....
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
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