The Tragedy of the Common Lisp, or, Why Large Languages Explode (was: revive let blocks)

Andrea Giammarchi andrea.giammarchi at gmail.com
Thu Jun 18 18:27:09 UTC 2015


I like Mark's post too, and if I might ...

> Features like classes and `let` are very often criticised and often
languages that did not add these features and are considered 'well
designed' are given in comparison (Python's lack of block scoping for
instance).

thing is, ES6 brought in many things that took years to explain in the "JS
way" and when finally developers started knowing and appreciating
`prototypal` inheritance and started understanding the `var` behavior, to
name just few, "we" started promoting ES6 as the universal problem solver
for every dev so that `let` is the new `var` (most developers still don't
even know what does it mean) and `const` is the better `let` and `class`
finally is in the language, something that desugar anyway to prototypal
inheritance, something developers still need to understand.

So I agree we should really stop going fancy with syntax, probably think
about sweet.js like approches, and fix all the things that will need to be
fixed in ES6, improving and finalizing classes bringing in composition like
it has always been possible before through prototypal inheritance. I really
do hope traits will be highly prioritized and binary/typed data/shapes too
'cause I don't think JS needs many more changes as it is today.

Just my lil'rant and keep up the good work.

Best Regards










On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 6:26 PM, Benjamin Gruenbaum <benjamingr at gmail.com>
wrote:

> First of all, brilliant post Mark.
>
> > As a community, we need more of a shared sense of panic about the size
> that ES6 has already grown to. Ideally, that panic should increase, not
> decrease, with further growth from here as our size approaches the point of
> no return.
>
> As a community, we do - if you look at HackerNews or Reddit or
> StackOverflow people are constantly hating on JS getting larger. Features
> like classes and `let` are very often criticised and often languages that
> did not add these features and are considered 'well designed' are given in
> comparison (Python's lack of block scoping for instance).
>
> This is a mailing list comprised of people who typically have a much
> better understanding of the language and its corners than most (even
> professional) developers have (and dare I say, are interested in or care
> about having). With ES6 the language already got a *lot* bigger and I'd
> argue that it's now harder to learn the whole. The tradeoffs were
> worthwhile but it's definitely an issue.
>
> It's easy to forget here what traps the average user might fall into, and
> it's easy to forget what they care about and what confuses them.
>
> Fwiw, there are examples of big languages that are well liked, the
> "canonical" example of a big but very well liked (and well designed imho)
> language is C#. It has a lot of cruft now (delegates and events, array
> covariance etc) but it is still a very well liked language in general.
>
>
>
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>
>
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