Idea for Strawman: separate the core standard library itself into modules

Erik Arvidsson erik.arvidsson at
Mon Sep 22 17:17:37 PDT 2014

Until modules are shipping in engines we will have to continue to add
On Sep 22, 2014 8:03 PM, "John Barton" <johnjbarton at> wrote:

> A way to start would add new built-ins only in modules.
> jjb
> On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 12:15 PM, Isiah Meadows <impinball at>
> wrote:
>> Transitioning the native API to modules is more of a proposed long term
>> goal of this proposal. It'll take years to fully realize.
>> On Sep 22, 2014 3:10 PM, "Isiah Meadows" <impinball at> wrote:
>>> @Brendan I'm aware of that pattern. For now, I'm more concerned about
>>> the option of modules. It would be nice to import the standard library
>>> features you need, and if, for some reason, one of the API natives get
>>> overwritten, you have a fallback.
>>> On Sep 22, 2014 1:18 PM, "Brendan Eich" <brendan at> wrote:
>>>> Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:
>>>>> OnMon, Sep 22, 2014  at 9:04 AM,  Domenic Denicola
>>>>> <domenic at>  wrote:
>>>>>> >  From: es-discuss [mailto:es-discuss-bounces at] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Isiah Meadows
>>>>>>> >>  I know this would break a lot of backwards compatibility
>>>>>>> completely, so this is purely hypothetical, and I expect this to not have a
>>>>>>> realistic chance anytime soon.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >  Anything that breaks backward compatibility will not have a
>>>>>> chance, realistic or otherwise,*ever*.
>>>>> To square this with Matthew's response, the original idea was to
>>>>> *also*  expose the core functionality as modules, to give you the
>>>>> ability to grab "clean" versions of any standard functions you wanted,
>>>>> while the preexisting global versions would still be there.
>>>> Right!
>>>> Isaih, this is good news: you can't insist on removing stuff, but if
>>>> you put the cleanups and better organization in new clothes, the old drab
>>>> ones will fade into disuse (even if they don't ever go away).
>>>> This is kind of a "law of the Web." It turns out compat does break, and
>>>> no one notices (much), over very long timeframes. At least, we saw this
>>>> going from the early Web to the modern days, with a few things (corner
>>>> cases in JS and CSS table layout). But these were never predictable, or
>>>> major.
>>>> With strict-by-default modules, we can hope for 'with' to whither away
>>>> over a decade. I wouldn't bet on it, since strict mode is still opt-in and
>>>> will be for <script>, forever.
>>>> /be
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