Thread about ES6 on reddit

Florian Bösch pyalot at gmail.com
Mon Aug 11 11:33:30 PDT 2014


I'd like to point to the grand experiment of python 3 to introduce a new
language, that breaks with the old one. This didn't work out to be exactly
popular, and to this day, python 3 struggles to gain acceptance.

A major roadblock for python 3 is that you cannot combine it with python 2
modules. This makes it impossible to perform a piecewise transition of your
code. You're faced with either of two choices, support the old version and
go trough the hassle of transpiling/breaking it on the new version. But at
least it works for most people. Or target the new version, and go trough
the hassle of transpiling/breaking it in the old version, but as a reward,
you get nearly zilch people for whom it'll run.

This all could've been avoided if it had been possible to combine the
python 2 and python 3 in a single VM.

And I believe that'd be a promising thing to do for javascript. If you
really want to make a new version, that's incompatible with the old
version, then make sure people have a viable migration strategy. And that
strategy is being able to continue using whatever code has not been updated
to the new version, while starting to write code for the new version.


On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Andrea Giammarchi <
andrea.giammarchi at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think there are books with high value and quality out there and not
> necessarily talking Web and jQuery only but I also agree that once decided
> ES7 would have broken native syntax compatibility with older engines, it
> could have been a chance to also fix all the well known gotchas of the
> languages because transpilers could fix those too.
>
> We can create generators in ES3 engines, we don't want to fix inherited
>  broken specs or features ... I never understood this, regardless what I
> think about ES7 in its whole.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Christoph Martens <cmartensms at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>  On 10.08.2014 22:24, Axel Rauschmayer wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/2d4wed/can_you_explain_to_me_something_about_es6/
>>
>>  This should please people worried about ES6 being perceived negatively:
>> the tone in this thread is quite upbeat.
>>
>>   --
>> Dr. Axel Rauschmayer
>> axel at rauschma.de
>> rauschma.de
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> es-discuss mailing listes-discuss at mozilla.orghttps://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
>>
>>
>> I think what the JavaScript community completely misses is the difference
>> between the WebAPIs and the language level. I mean, the broader audience
>> thinks jQuery is JavaScript. Everybody thinks that those shitty WebAPIs are
>> the language.
>>
>> That's why it is really hard to get started with developing on a
>> professional level. In C++, for example, I ordered the "C++ standard book"
>> back then and I realized what the language was made for. After around 14
>> years of C++ development, I still have it laying around, because it is an
>> excellent reference when you have no idea how to solve a problem.
>>
>> But on the other hand I sold all my JS books, because they are worthless.
>> None of the books tells you how a JIT compiler works, why valueOf() and
>> toString() works that way or what the conceptual ideas behind prototyping
>> is. Most of them make an introduction to it, but none of them show you
>> actually how to use the advantages of the language. Every book I laid my
>> eyes on tells you how to build a website in some way, and I personally
>> think this is false.
>>
>> Even if you do JavaScript on a professional level (hacking V8 with GL
>> bindings and cross-compiling it) you still don't realize many concepts of
>> the language. Other languages wouldn't make a "we don't wanna break the
>> web, we can't change it" decision (refering to null and undefined and Typed
>> Values here). They just give a shit on it, in favor of quality in design.
>>
>> As far as I know, most languages make at least a transitioning version of
>> it and change the behaviour afterwards, because you can't keep a good
>> quality on a language level otherwise.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> ~Christoph
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> es-discuss mailing list
>> es-discuss at mozilla.org
>> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> es-discuss mailing list
> es-discuss at mozilla.org
> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
>
>
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