ES Native Mode proposal

Aymeric Vitte vitteaymeric at
Thu Sep 26 03:16:50 PDT 2013

Le 26/09/2013 11:43, David Bruant a écrit :
> Le jeu. 26 sept. 2013 11:11:40 CEST, Aymeric Vitte a écrit :
>> For those interested I provided in the CSP thread a link to a FF bug
>> report where it's explained how some security policy (here Websocket
>> spec) forces me to do insecure things. I don't know what list can take
>> care of it, there is a discussion in [1] too, for now I did not see
>> really solid arguments showing that I could be wrong.
> I answered on the webappsec thread. Firefox blocks mixed content for 
> good reasons. When receiving an HTTPS page, the browser shows lots of 
> signs of the page being secure. If the page starts loading 
> code/style/content with HTTP, these are subject to man in the middle 
> attacks and suddenly, the browser gives a false sense of security to 
> the user.

Mixed content is not blocked today. Again, it's difficult to say which 
one is more insecure between http with https or https with http, the 
first one is subject to a mitm attack since the begining.

> Firefox isn't forcing you to do insecure things. Firefox is forcing 
> you to make a choice: go all the way secure (so that it can shows 
> strong signal to the user) or use HTTP.

I am not saying FF is the problem, FF follows the Websocket spec, which 
does not allow ws with https. I am explaining why I can not use wss 
(routers can not have trusted certificates), so I am forced to fallback 
to http. It's easy to deny the issue but that's a real life use case.

>> Maybe a solution could be combination of CSP and SES, I think SES
>> should come now, as far as I remember it is planned for ES8, seems too
>> late.
> SES exists now... sort of... with Caja. You don't need to wait, it's 
> already available. Module loaders are also a major step forward.

Not very intuitive to use as far as I remember.

>> Solving the code loading issue is indeed the key point, but is it
>> feasible?
> Can you describe ways in which it isn't?

Do you know a way (even theoretical) to safely load code with web 
mechanisms that can defeat a mitm? This would necessarly imply another 
check mechanism on top of SSL/TLS

> David

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