Questions/issues regarding generators

Brendan Eich brendan at mozilla.com
Thu Mar 14 14:54:11 PDT 2013


Consider:

     var i = getSomeIterator();
     var x0 = i.next(), x1 = i.next(), x2 = i.next();
     for (let x of i) {
         ...
     }

Should the loop iterate over x0, x1, and x2? That's what would (have to) 
happen if i[@iterator]() returned a cloneof the iterator ireset to the 
starting "position".

Of course the iteration protocol we have in Harmony has no notion of 
position, or memory, or any particular thing that might be needed to 
replay x0, x1, and x2.

Cloning i at its "current position" (if such a notion exists) has the 
problem that Andreas objected to in the o.p.

Not cloning i, making iter[@iterator]() === iter as in Python, solves 
the problem minimally.

I don't see a way to specify iterator cloning as part of the iteration 
protocol. What am I missing?

/be

Dmitry Lomov wrote:
>
> (I'll address comments from both your e-mails here)
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 7:56 AM, Jason Orendorff 
> <jason.orendorff at gmail.com <mailto:jason.orendorff at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:06 AM, Dmitry Lomov <dslomov at google.com
>     <mailto:dslomov at google.com>> wrote:
>
>         At a risk of repeating myself, 'open()' scenario is handled
>         perfectly well with the iterable (see my example). Example
>         where things truly cannot be reiterated (I am not sure why
>         network stream is such an example - the network connection can
>         always be opened twice) are rare. One possibility will be to
>         throw on the second call to iterator(). 
>
>
>     Gosh, maybe we are irreconcilable then. Implicitly opening network
>     connections many times seems bad to me. Same for reopening files,
>     actually.
>
>
> I do not think we are irreconcilable. Clearly there is a library 
> design choice here. A designer of a particular library for 
> file/network IO may or may not consider opening a file on 'iterator()' 
> call too implicit. I think it is not too implicit, while you appear to 
> think otherwise.
>
> In the world with Iterables, the library designer can easily disallow 
> iterating the result of open a second time - as I suggested above, if 
> for whatever reason the sequence cannot be re-iterated, iterator() 
> method can throw on second call. In that case, attempt to zip a file 
> with itself will throw when zip calls the iterator method a second 
> time, and that will be an early failure with a clear cause.
>
> However, non-reiterable iterables are a fringe case - maybe 10% of 
> iterators are non-re-iterable even by the standards you suggest 
> (expensive operations on iteration start). [I am being generous here; 
> seems that all allegedly non-reiterable examples suggested so far has 
> been related to I/O; given that I/O libraries are generally 
> asynchronous in ES, I/O is generally not very amenable to be 
> implemented as iterators, since in general results of I/O operations 
> are only available in a callback, and not on-demand, as next() method 
> would require]. My educated guess would be that 90% 
> iterators/iterables in the wild would be easily re-iterable, as they 
> would be results of operations over collections (such as filter, map, 
> zip and similar). This is a baby that gets thrown with the water, not 
> the "non-restartable" iterators
>
>
>     This semantics is sound and consistent, but there is a problem: by
>     that logic, the first call 'zip(rangeAsArray, rangeAsArray)' also
>     has all the appearances of a user error! It requires careful
>     analysis and thinking to convince oneself that it is indeed
>     correct. Well, maybe not in a simple case when the initializer of
>     rangeAsArray is an array literal, but as soon as the initializer
>     is more complicated - say an external function, you can never be sure.
>
>
> > But you could argue the same way for literally any other operation 
> on an object. 'rangeAsArray.length', for example, would also be 
> nonsensical if rangeAsArray turns out to be some other sort of object 
> and not an array after all.
>
> We do not talk here about arbitrary operations on a random object; we 
> are talking about operations mandated by the language and their 
> semantics. In fact, length is not a bad example of a precedent in this 
> space: after ES5
>    for (int i = 0; i < obj.length; i++) console.log(obj[i]);
> works great for all "array-like" data structures, including arrays, 
> strings and typed arrays. It will be nice to achieve the same for 
> iterator(), for..of and generators.
>
> > Note that generators return coroutine objects with methods other 
> than just the iteration-related methods. The coroutine state, to my 
> mind, is inherent to the returned object.
>
> In the Iterable design, coroutine state would be inherent to a result 
> of iterator(), i.e. co-routine execution begins once iterator() is called.
>
>     If we are to presume that this particular kind of bug will be
>     common in JS, why isn't it common in Python?
>     If I'm mistaken about Python and this is actually a common problem
>     there, then I'd reconsider.
>
>
> I am not a deep specialist in Python, but my understanding is that the 
> problem there is mitigated by the common practice of writing 
> iterators. Python is class-based, so typically one iterates over the 
> class instance, and implementation of __iter__ looks like:
>
> class MyToDoList:
>    ...
>    def __iter__(self):
>       for task in self.tasks:
>          if not task.done:
>             yield task
>    ...
>
> What happens here is that MyToDoList is actually Iterable in the sense 
> I advocate: every call to MyToDoList.__iter__ returns a fresh 
> iterator. Since python developers typically wrap their iterators in a 
> class, iterable/iterator dichotomy is not acute (but search for 
> "python iterators vs iterables" and even "python iterators considered 
> harmful" to see some examples of confused users)
>
> I think that in ES, heavy on functions, people will tend to just use 
> "function*() { ... }" way more often than in Python.
>
>
> Dmitry
>
>
>
>     -j
>
>
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