allen at wirfs-brock.com
Mon Apr 15 09:53:30 PDT 2013
On Apr 15, 2013, at 2:02 AM, Robin Berjon wrote:
> I heartily agree with the sentiment in these three proposals, but I'm not sure that they're the best approach.
> To begin with, I can't formally speak on behalf of all the API-making groups but I would be very surprised if they weren't enthusiastic at the prospect of hosting a session dedicated to TC39 discussion. I think that you can consider yourselves permanently invited.
The reason I bring this up, is that TC39 didn't go away with a lot of warm and fuzzies the only time we co-located a TC39 meeting with a TPAC (I believe it was 2009). It just wasn't clear where we fit in and how to engage with various W3C groups. Some of this is no doubt simply a matter of cultural and process differences but the end result was that TC39, as a group, didn't seem to really have a place there and within TC39 there hasn't been much interest in trying this again.
So I think a standing invitation probably isn't enough. There really needs to be some proactive out-reach coming from the perspective that ECMAScript is one of the major cross-cutting web platform technologies and hence TC39 to be a real partner various W3C working groups.
> The parts I'm not sure about are about having a TPAC session and coordinating with the TAG. There aren't really any properly plenary sessions at TPAC anymore (at least there haven't been in the past two years), so this may not be optimal. We could reserve a dedicated "Talk with TC39" breakout session every year. I don't know if that's enough, but it could be a start.
I see. The only time I attended a TPAC it still had plenary sessions. So how does the W3C generally communicate plans, priorities, information, etc. that cross-cut various working groups?
> In general though, I think that holding such a session would be more efficient as part of the meeting of one of the larger API groups, typically WebApps. Things that get communicated to WebApps and decided there are likely to make their way to other groups relatively quickly. And I believe that might be more efficient than talking to the TAG. Even though things might change now that the TAG's make-up has evolved, I would expect API-making groups to listen to WebApps more readily than they'd listen to the TAG.
I'll take your word for it as I don't really understand the working culture of W3C groups. My TAG suggestion comes form a longer term planning perspective. In TC39 we are already working on some aspects of "ECMAScript 7" even though "ECMAScript 6" won't be a standard until Dec. 2014. Are the things we are planning the things that W3C groups are likely to need at the end of this decade? We have our opinions, but it would seem some coordination with long term W3C planning would be appropriate.
> So to reformulate your three proposals:
> 1) At every TPAC there should be a presentation by TC39 to the W3C community, either in a dedicated breakout session or to WebApps.
> 2) W3C proactively invites participation from TC39 members in TPAC (we can handle the details offline).
> 3) WebApps has a second meeting (not at TPAC) every year, and it would be a good idea to catch up there as well.
I can't unilaterally speak for TC39, but these sound like good first steps to me.
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