TC39 bashing

Axel Rauschmayer axel at
Wed May 9 22:14:44 PDT 2012

> What is the goal of this?

I wanted to give positive feedback to the TC39 work (didn’t want the negative feedback to be the only one) and wanted to mention ideas for improvement.

> To be honest, creating better ways for developers to get directly involved in this process is a bad idea. [...] Let's not delude ourselves in to thinking that the only barrier to being a part of the current process is technical and can be solved with indexing or a bulletin board.

I agree that involving developers directly is a bad idea (that’s what I meant when I said that upsetting people is unavoidable and that design by popular vote is not a good approach). Most of the time, a forum would indicate what needs to be explained better – features that people misunderstand. It would also allow people to disagree with something without having to go to es-discuss and sending an email.

+1 to the following idea.

> I think a better strategy is for TC-39 to state definitively what is *not* currently working on or is of a very low priority. This would allow the community of people using JavaScript to tackle those problems more directly rather than just waiting. At some point in the future TC-39 can adopt or ratify behavior that has proved itself in the community. I know this process is eluded to often but I don't think you understand how much momentum gets sucked out of the community when they are under the impression that new behavior will be handed down from TC-39 and that their work may fall in conflict or out of date.
> The recent discussion about Object.isObject is a great example. If this isn't happening please state so definitely so that we can rally around existing work (underscore) or build something new.

> [...]
> -Mikeal
> On May 9, 2012, at May 9, 20124:46 PM, Axel Rauschmayer wrote:
>> I’m seeing quite a bit of anti-TC39 sentiment out there and I don’t think it’s fair. Some examples (paraphrasing):
>> - “TC39 doesn’t care about web developers and/or doesn’t understand web development.”
>> - “TC39 ignores what the people want and designs ‘by committee’.”
>> - “TC39 is moving too slowly, does too little.”
>> The following are counter-points to those opinions:
>> [...]
>> What could be improved:
>> 1. Make it easier to search the mailing list archives. Might be a minor thing, but it would really help. I wonder how Brendan always finds those old threads that are relevant to a particular topic.
>> 2. Possibly add an FAQ. This could be as simple as collecting all emails that have long-term explanatory value.
>> 3. I like the idea of having a forum what some people can suggest ideas and everyone can vote on them. One would need both up-votes and down-votes, as there is bound to be a lot of troll material. Such a forum can only ever have an advisory role. But it gives developers the opportunity to vent their feelings and it gives TC39 popular feedback (including ideas that might not have come up before). By bundling requests, traffic is reduced.
>> 4. Some complaints are about evolving the standard library (including collection types). I’ve seen Brendan hint at a strategy for doing so, but I’d love to read more about it.

Dr. Axel Rauschmayer
axel at


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