Internationalization summary 1/19 (TC39 meeting)

Norbert Lindenberg ecmascript at norbertlindenberg.com
Mon Jan 23 18:57:34 PST 2012


I'd agree that Jed is an internationalization library. Code that enables localization to me is internationalization. But the internationalization/localization/globalization community speaks a number of different dialects...

The current spec of the proposed ECMAScript Globalization API is at:
http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=globalization:specification_drafts
and an easier-to-read but slightly out-of-date guide at:
http://norbertlindenberg.com/2011/11/ecmascript-globalization-api/index.html

Norbert


On Jan 23, 2012, at 16:59 , Alex Sexton wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm the author of said "Jed" library. I'd be happy to update the info on the Jed site with the correct terminology, but I was wondering why the term "internationalization" is incorrect? It's an implementation of the Gettext spec (with a few wrappers) which GNU defines as an _internationalization_ tool (and so does wikipedia, etc, etc):
> 
> http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html#Concepts
> 
> The easiest to read summary being:
> 
> "Also, very roughly said, when it comes to multi-lingual messages, internationalization is usually taken care of by programmers, and localization is usually taken care of by translators."
> 
> Jed specifically _doesn't handle_ the loading or setting of locales, it is rather the mechanism for implementing applications in a non-language-specific manner. Gettext has proved to be useful in other languages, as it handles pluralization and positional interpolation (with sprintf's help), and it seems to work well in JavaScript.
> 
> The APIs that Jed offers on top of Gettext are just sugar (they call directly into the dcnpgettext function but they're pretty because omg chaining).
> 
> I'd love to learn more about the internationalization specs that you are working on. Is there a link to them somewhere? I'd love to bridge the gap between what you're talking about and what I've put into Jed.
> 
> Thanks!
> Alex Sexton
> 
> Nebojša Ćirić cira at google.com 
> Mon Jan 23 14:19:05 PST 2012
> He is unfortunately using term "internationalization" for "localization".
> This library only lets you handle resource loading - i.e. translated
> messages.
> 
> Our library deals with proper formatting and sorting (and possibly many
> more in the future). The actual sorting (collation) is the hard part where
> no native JavaScript implementation exists and with a good reason - data
> size and algorithm complexity would be hard to overcome.
> 
> I don't feel we are rushing anything, it's been 1.5 yrs since we started,
> but this is my first standard so I may be too optimistic :). 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Brendan Eich <brendan at mozilla.com>
> To: "Nebojša Ćirić" <cira at google.com>
> Cc: es-discuss at mozilla.org
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:26:24 -0800
> Subject: Re: Internationalization summary 1/19 (TC39 meeting)
> Just saw this tweeted:
> 
> http://slexaxton.github.com/Jed/
> 
> Wondered if anyone has any reactions. We have a Globalization API rushing to standardization while libraries to do some of what it does exist on github.com. It seems to me we ought to look at the latter while finalizing the former -- if not actually interact with developers using the latter more.
> 
> /be
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