how to create strawman proposals?

Brendan Eich brendan at
Thu Jun 2 22:29:23 PDT 2011

On Jun 2, 2011, at 10:15 PM, Kyle Simpson wrote:

>>> So if a non-TC39 member wants to create suggestions and proposals and ideas for the community to discuss, am I to understand that not only this list, but also the wiki that this list so frequently references, are not really intended for that?
>> I didn't say anything about this list. Discussion on all kinds of ideas goes on here. (Yes, people including me get grumpy about overciting, filibustering, padding with rehashed motivation, etc. -- so what?)
> With all due respect, it's a somewhat common occurrence on this list when someone brings up an idea that bears even a remote resemblance to an existing official strawman, the instinctual and rapid triage is to shoehorn the discussion into the strawman and quickly move on.

No, there are lots of discussions not "shoehorned' into wiki'd proposals.

Recent threads including "Proxies with State", "statements that could be expressions", "Regex on substrings", "ES parsing tools", all have no strawman and seem to be doing fine without any overlong complaints about "shoe-horning".

But if something comes up that is similar to an existing strawman or proposal, then people including me will try to cite the relevant wiki page. What is wrong with that?

> That is of course perfectly fine to run *this* list that way, but I was asking if there was a place (or could there be a place?) where ideas could be discussed in a less formal setting without the need for formalized strawman proposals, and certainly without the urge to immediately bucket each idea or question into an existing proposal, or dismiss a topic as having already been hashed out long ago.

You are writing way, way too many words of complaint, instead of doing what you imply you are being prevented from doing.

You want to discuss ideas including /n and @>? Discuss.

You want wiki access? No.

Now, what's the problem?


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