brendan at mozilla.com
Sun Jan 10 21:38:30 PST 2010
On Jan 10, 2010, at 9:30 PM, David-Sarah Hopwood wrote:
> Brendan Eich wrote:
>> On Jan 10, 2010, at 1:14 AM, Kevin Curtis wrote:
>>> From SecureEcmaScript proposal:
>>> 6. The top level binding of this in an evaled Program is not the
>>> global object, but rather a frozen root object containing just the
>>> globals defined in the ES5 spec.
>> For many current applications, the frozen |this| object is not
>> or desirable in global code. The essential characteristic of modules,
>> isolation for each module's "inside" from unimported effects of other
>> modules, does not necessarily mean no mutation of primordial objects.
> On the contrary, it does necessarily mean that. If you can mutate
> primordial objects, then there is no isolation of any module. There
> may be a reduction in the possibilities for accidental interference
> between modules, but that should be distinguished from isolation.
Who said primordial objects are shared between modules? You assume too
much in assuming your favored conclusion.
There are three things a module has to deal with to interact with JS
1. The global object and its Object, Date, etc. primordials.
2. The |this| binding for "global" code in the module, at the module's
3. The scope chain tail object, the only object on the scope chain for
global code in ES1-5.
These are not necessarily the same at all. The lexical_scope proposal
eliminates 3 by making the top-level a lexical environment, not an
object. The |this| binding may or may not refer to the global object.
And it's not settled whether, in browsers with many global objects
(one per window/frame/iframe) there is only one global among N>1
modules, or a global per module.
If modules do not use free variables, only what they import, then
you're wrong that isolation requires freezing. Modules could use their
own primordials, or none (only library code, possibly better versions
of Date, etc.). The object and array initialisers and regexp literals
would have to construct using some "original value" of Object, Array,
RegExp. But not necessarily a frozen one, if per-module.
That you conflate frozen primordials with isolation is exactly the
kind of over-specification through shortest-path evolution of ES5 to
which I object. It is not going to fly in TC39 among all the browser
vendors. We need to hear from Apple, Microsoft, and Opera, but I'm
already objecting to this kind of axiom planting. Let's back up and
talk about modules from premises forward.
More information about the es-discuss