stepping on toes with toISOString

[Daniel Friesen]

Just a random comment from someone outside.

I saw one library at one point which which rather than picking, just
picked a default and used a `strict` parameter which would allow someone
to pass true or false to chose "T" or " ";

Also rather than just toISOString it supported .toISOTimeString,
.toISODateString and a .toISOString which was based on it.

When I came up with prototypes to add for MonkeyScript (still just
drafting) I followed that same idea:
http://draft.monkeyscript.org/api/_std/Date.html

((Of course, I'll modify the MonkeyScript drafts to comply with anything
standardized for ES5))

~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]

Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote:
> Arguably, the "mutual agreement" would be between Data.prototype.toISOString and Date.prototype.parse which are the only specified producers and consumers of this specific format. But I agree that it is probably better to require the "T".  If somebody wants a more readable timestamp it is easy enough for them to replace the "T" with a blank.
>
> Allen
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: es-discuss-bounces at mozilla.org [mailto:es-discuss-
>> bounces at mozilla.org] On Behalf Of William Edney
>> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 2:21 PM
>> To: David-Sarah Hopwood
>> Cc: es-discuss at mozilla.org
>> Subject: Re: stepping on toes with toISOString
>>
>> Allen -
>>
>> Here's a link to ISO 8601:2004(E):
>>
>> http://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/4021199/ISO_8601_2004_E.zip?func=
>> doc.Fetch&nodeid=4021199
>>
>> Section 4.3.2:
>>
>> "The character [T] shall be used as time designator to indicate the
>> start of the representation of the time of day
>> component in these expressions."
>>
>> this is then followed by:
>>
>> "NOTE By mutual agreement of the partners in information interchange,
>> the character [T] may be omitted in
>> applications where there is no risk of confusing a date and time of
>> day representation with others defined in this
>> International Standard."
>>
>>
>> In addition I found IETF RFC3339:
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3339
>>
>> Section 5.6
>>
>> "NOTE: ISO 8601 defines date and time separated by "T".
>>       Applications using this syntax may choose, for the sake of
>>       readability, to specify a full-date and full-time separated by
>>       (say) a space character."
>>
>>
>> So this leaves us in a bit of a bind. The 'out' for the 'T' provided
>> in the ISO8601 spec says that 'by mutual agreement of the partners in
>> information interchange'... (the T can be omitted).
>>
>> Unfortunately, I think that's impossible given the nature of the Web.
>> I could produce an 8601 date without the 'T' in JS, but then transmit
>> it to any one of hundreds of thousands of servers that are running
>> software that expects it. There is no way to have 'mutual agreement'
>> amongst a potentially infinite set of folks using ISO8601.
>>
>> Therefore, unfortunately (because I agree with David about readability
>> and would like to be able to +1 this), I have to give this a -1 and
>> recommend that we go with the spec 'conservatively' and enforce the 'T'.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - Bill
>>
>>
>> On Jul 16, 2009, at 11:17 PM, David-Sarah Hopwood wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Also if Stockton is correct that the T is now optional in the ISO
>>>> standard, I'd suggest making it optional in ES a well.  Or, if
>>>> optional
>>>> is too much trouble, forbidding T and requiring a space instead.  A
>>>> small change, but the timestamps are so much nicer without the T!
>>>> And
>>>> it would be a shame for ES to get stuck with the T while ISO and
>>>> everyone who uses it moves away from the T.
>>>>         
>>> +1. With a space instead of the T, the format is actually reasonably
>>> pleasant to read.
>>>
>>> --
>>> David-Sarah Hopwood  ⚥  http://davidsarah.livejournal.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> es-discuss mailing list
>>> es-discuss at mozilla.org
>>> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> es-discuss mailing list
>> es-discuss at mozilla.org
>> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> es-discuss mailing list
> es-discuss at mozilla.org
> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
>   

-- 
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]