Es4-discuss Digest, Vol 8, Issue 44

Ric Johnson Cedric at OpenDomain.Org
Tue Oct 30 16:45:16 PDT 2007

Thank you all for keeping this thread alive, despite all the flamz,

I still am missing something.  If someone could somehow prove that ES4 is
flawed, do we have actually have a chance to fix it before it is burned
over my childhood memories?  How do we do that?  Do I need to draw up a
diagram comparing similar systems and show failure rates mathematically
and then mail it to Al Gore?

The problem with this debate is that I could argue both sides:  I work as
a .Net dev by day (mostly), and I promote Open Source in my free time. 
I use IE6, IE7, Firefox 2, Opera and Safari.

Doug is correct: as a product manager, it is bad to add more features: it
increases our risks with reduced ROI

Brenden is also correct:  If the working group voted and the current
proposal won - it is better to have a stronger, more secure language. 
Sure they can argue it is bloated, but SO WHAT?

I know! I know! What if I set up some sort of webpage (with Ajax!) that
asks people to VOTE on the current spec? What would be the rules?
1) Validating identity to prevent double votes
    a) Classify employer and prove they did not force your vote
2) Do we need technical questions to verify understanding?
3) Should there be a line item veto?

The idea is silly, but I wonder: who would honor it?

I believe I heard quite a few declarations from Mozilla/ Adobe/ Opera
here.  I would like to hear a statement from Yahoo and Microsoft

Doug:  If 99% of technical users said they wanted ALL of the features,
would you accept it?  What is your threshold?  One more thing:  Can you
make a statement to the effect that Yahoo does not have any 'deal'
with Microsoft to hinder this process?  I am sorry to point to you, but
I really do not expect an answer from MS, considering the past.

To put another face on it, it seems to me we are being unfair.  If Opera
put in a new feature in their browser, I assume most people would just
believe  it was their business. BUT if Microsoft decides to put a direct
interpreter for .net in IE8 and CALL it JavaScript (or jScript), we
would ALL cry foul.   Is ES4 the new OOXML?  In effect, some major
players are getting together to force a standard that the others do not
agree on. Then again, if Microsoft simply did not implement Javscript2,
would the other vendors be happy?

As a software engineer, I welcome most of the proposed changes.  BUT, as
a web developer, I feel I am forced to take Doug's view:  even there
was only ONE change between browsers, I would have to have special code
to handle ALL cases.   And the sad thing is that it WILL happen.  I am
willing to bet up to $100,000 - any takers?

If you think the Ajax libraries are complex now, just wait.  And if
anyone is  interested in the web, but did nothing about this now, we
will all loose.

We are all talking about the 'Open Web';  I feel so strongly about
this, I donated OpenAjax.Org to the Alliance in order to promote the
largest collaboration in history.  I was _overjoyed_ when Microsoft AND
Google joined.  Now I realize they can not solve all the problems in the
current context.  If ANYONE can implement the OpenAjax hub with all
libraries and a back end infrastructure to support developers, they have
my permission to use OpenAjax.Com for FREE as part of OpenDomain.  Any

Ric Johnson

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