Es4-discuss Digest, Vol 8, Issue 44

Yuh-Ruey Chen maian330 at
Fri Nov 2 14:40:41 PDT 2007

As far as I can see it, there are a couple of non-technical issues here
that have to be resolved, but they all boil down to who is willing to
implement what. Is there truly no way to compromise?

MS says that they think ES4 deserves to a be a new language. Suppose
that is true and ES4 is renamed, say ES++. Then would MS be willing to
implementing ES++ in their new browser? Or is the name truly a scapegoat
to blame their misgivings of ES4 the language itself?

Or if you consider the feature set of ES4 to be too bloated, that ES4 is
trying to tackle problems it was never meant to handle, what exactly do
you dislike about ES4? What features would do you want to cut out of the
language? What features would the pro-ES4 people be willing to cut out?
I know this will be hard, but let's ignore feature dependencies for the
moment. Say, for example, that you dislike the class system but are fine
with the type system (as nonsensical as that sounds). Perhaps you're
fine with grafting a type system on top of the prototype system without
classes. Or if you also dislike the type system, what do you propose
instead? For encapsulation, you might propose sticking with closures.
Now, how are you going to address the pitfalls of closures, namely
memory usage and inefficiency? ES4 advocates may also be concerned that
encapsulation via closures is plain ugly, while ES4 critics say that
classes make the language inelegant. Perhaps there is another solution?
Anyway, do you see where I'm getting with this? There should be some
room for compromise. I'd like to see some active discussion concerning
these feature disagreements.

Lastly, all this accusations concerning intentions need to stop.
Mozilla, this concerns you too - I find that saying you won't let big
bully MS block ES4 is somewhat hypocritical, considering that the SVG
1.2 committee did something similar to you guys (make no mistake, I'm
not accusing anyone and I hope this is the last time SVG is mentioned on
this mailing list). In any case, hypocritical or not, all these
accusations are not constructive at all. Responding to accusations with
more accusations is plain sophomoric in my book. Please, I have enough
of my political bullshit from the news - I don't expect that here.

Thanks, Yuh-Ruey Chen

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