is the ES4 proposal as good as approved?

Peter Michaux petermichaux at
Wed Dec 19 22:05:07 PST 2007

On Dec 19, 2007 9:38 PM, Brendan Eich <brendan at> wrote:
> On Dec 19, 2007, at 9:16 PM, Peter Michaux wrote:
> With so many ECMAScript engines rushing ahead to implement the ES4
> proposal, it seems as though the proposal is as good as approved.
> No, and I wonder if you missed my reply to your comment in John Resig's
> blog:

I did see it. Thank you.

> John's Google Spreadsheet and generated chart is charting progress. There
> will be changes to both implementations and draft specs. Don't panic.
> As I wrote in that comment, it would be a big mistake to specify without
> implementations that users test and truly use for non-trivial/synthetic
> inputs. It would also be a mistake to marry an early draft just because it
> was implemented and used.
> Perhaps there will be minor tweaks but if so many implementations
> contain classes, for example, such a feature will almost certainly be
> in ES4 final.
> Let's cut to the chase: what are you worried about?

Curious about the process mostly.

> Classes being in ES4?

Classes were just the easiest feature to use as an example since it is
such an obvious one.

> Has the voting majority agreed in principle to vote in favor of the
> proposal?
> Ecma and ISO technical groups work by consensus, not voting. As everyone
> knows, consensus broke down within TG1, in a public way this past fall --
> but we are trying to repair it now.

I didn't know it was consensus. I think it is much easier in a vote
for someone to say no to the proposal knowing it will pass anyway than
for someone to say no in a consensus group knowing his perhaps unique
position will spoil the party for everyone else. It seems like it
would take a very big jerk to turn down the proposal if so many
companies have already invested in implementing the proposal. That is
why the term "strong arm" came to mind when I commented on John's

Thank you,

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